King Hannah - Shadowy vibrations from an American sound

interview by Maria Teresa Soldani

On May 31st the English band released their second album, “Big Swimmer” (City Slang, 2024), following the acclaimed debut “I'm Not Sorry, I Was Just Being Me” (City Slang, 2022), which had also cast a spell on the OndaRock team, who named it Best Album of 2022. Before the release we met up with Hannah and Craig in Milan to take stock after the success of their debut and talk about this new work.

I’d like to start from the beginning to tell our readers your story. How did you each start playing individually, and what kind of music were you playing?

Hannah: I always wanted to make music my job, so I always worked hard at it, always sang and played guitar. I've simply been writing songs for as long as I can remember, simple acoustic songs in a singer-songwriter style. I was a huge fan of Laura Marling… basically terrible acoustic songs… and you?

Craig: It was a similar path, and I loved Laura Marling too. I also liked older musicians like Jackson Browne, Crosby Stills & Nash, Joni Mitchell, that kind of singer-songwriter music that came out of 1970s California… the first time we met we went to see Laura Marling, didn't we? I think our taste is excellent.

Hannah: I hope so!

Did you have other bands before forming King Hannah, or did you write your own material on your own without playing it as a group?

C.: I'd been playing acoustic in a duo or trio since school, when I was 13 or 14 and started playing guitar. We were terrible, we used to cover bands like the Eagles… So this is actually our first real band.

Wow, it's amazing how you managed to put together such a cohesive project right from the start! The first time I listened to your debut, I was struck by how much weight of time it seemed to carry on its shoulders…

C. & H.: Really? Thank you!

So you decided to form a band while you were working at the same place, right?

C. & H.: Yes.

In your music, how does the mutual balance between songwriting and arrangement work?

H.: We usually write songs separately, at home, and then work on them. Once they've taken a fairly finished shape, we share them with each other. We exchange ideas, listen to other musicians' songs as references, discuss the structure. Then we work on them together again at home, and once we feel happy with our parts and how they work together, we bring what we've done to the drummer and bassist and finish them off. That's it.

So songwriting is like a dialogue between the two of you, it seems to be the result of your conversation…

C.: Yes. The process starts individually, develops between the two of us, and by the time it reaches the band we already have an idea of how the song will end up sounding.

H.: Right, by that point it's already in its complete form. If you try to strip away the bass and drums, it's still recognizable as the same song, like it's just the acoustic version of it.

C.: I think it helps that we have the same musical taste. If I write a song, it doesn't sound like a different song than one Hannah would write, and vice versa. We're both after the same outcome. I think that's why it works. It might not work for two other people, but for us it does.

So could we expect some acoustic dates in the future as well?

C.: Maybe so! We watch our favourite artists play acoustic sets, and even though we're a bit intimidated by the idea of being the kind of act that could pull that off…

H: Absolutely.

C.: …it's just a different thing, you don't need the whole band, it could even be done as a separate thing on its own.

How has your day-to-day musical routine changed over the last two years, after the success of your debut "I'm Not Sorry, I Was Just Being Me"? For instance, did you explore new ways of writing, or did you need to go back to your usual habits to record this second album?

H.: The way we write songs hasn't changed, it's the same, but since we spent so much time on tour we weren't able to write – at least, we don't write while we're touring. We had to get back home to our daily habits. I think that was the only real difference, right? (to C.) It took us two years (for the second record).

C.: Yeah, we just can't write on the road…

H.: Right, so it's really our whole routine that changed. But that's fine, a balance ends up forming (between things).

What do you think you brought into "Big Swimmer" from your life on tour?

C.: I think our very first EP and the album were written and recorded with barely any live shows behind us. We played a handful of gigs in 2017-18, then stopped, and the EP and album came out in 2021. We realised that the songs, once played live, changed a lot compared to the album, and for the second record we wanted to bring in exactly the sound we had live, the one the audience reacted to. Even though we like the album, and people like it, we wanted the record to sound real, alive, to give the feeling of having people in the room interacting with each other… For instance, we didn't use a metronome on a lot of the tracks, we wanted people to feel like they were at a show.

My impression is that this time round the guitars on the recordings sound more vital and vibrant, they "breathe more", like they do live. They actually made me think of the sound I remembered from your show.

H.: Amazing!

Yes, songs like "Milk Boy", "Suddenly your hand" – under the star of Neil Young – and "Somewhere Near El Paso"…

C.: Yes, we recorded this record differently from the first one, less live. We started from drums and bass, and built everything else on top. The guitar sounds more live and full this time because the amp was shut away in its own room. And you couldn't go in there because the volume was really loud. I really wanted the guitars to sound alive, full-bodied, vibrant, dynamic… Ali Chant (ed., Aldous Harding, PJ Harvey, Perfume Genius) was brilliant at capturing that live feeling, at hearing it.

How did the production of the record come together?

H.: We worked with Ali Chant in Bristol – where we live – who has a studio we went to every day for two weeks. He was great, as a producer he understood what we wanted and he wanted the same thing, which is what you want from a producer. He was encouraging, he loved the songs. It sounds silly, but you want to work with someone who likes what you're doing… it's hard to find a producer, right?

C.: Yes.

It's hard to find someone who really knows how to get "under the skin" of the songs…

C.: Yes, he'd really listened closely to the lyrics and everything. He'd comment on the lyrics, without telling us to change them (but to talk about them). He really made a difference.

H.: We'd never done that before, yeah.

You've created another fascinating, multifaceted journey, blending genres and atmospheres (from post-rock to slowcore, to country and psychedelia) with your "personal touch," the kind we can now recognise as such. Is that something you paid particular attention to during production, or has it become a natural part of your workflow between the studio and the stage?

H.: I think it comes from the artists we're influenced by. We listen to a lot of them. We listen to Slint, Built To Spill, Weyes Blood… It's not something you think about, but by sitting down to write every day, the result ends up reflecting what you've been listening to in the days before. It's in there.

C.: A friend of mine, a few months ago, after hearing the new record, told me he couldn't say what King Hannah sounded like. I think that's a great thing, not having a fixed sound. We don't want someone to listen to one of our records and already know what to expect before they've heard it.

H.: Yeah, we like to surprise people.

C.: We only record songs we think are worthwhile. We don't stop to judge whether they have a "King Hannah sound" or not in the moment: they're a King Hannah song by their very nature, and that holds a whole lot of genres inside it.

When I listen to "Big Swimmer," I feel it's different, but at the same time it's still you.

H.: That's great, that's exactly what we want!

Who and what influenced you while making "Big Swimmer"?

H.: America is definitely a huge influence. A lot of the lyrics tell stories we witnessed when we were there: "Milky Boy," "El Paso"…

"New York, Let's Do Nothing"…

H.: Yes! Movies inspire us too: “Aftersun”, murder documentaries… music during the day and films in the evening. “Suddenly, Your Hand” is about one of these documentaries, “Skully” is about “X-Files”.

Psychedelia and X-Files!

C.: Yes! And then it's about everyday life: we cook and watch films, we listen to bands we love like John Prine, Slint, Bill Callahan…

H.: We try to put as much detail as possible into the stories, so listeners can visualize them. Really ordinary, simple things, like chicken in the oven or a moustache. We want people to visualize something the same way we visualize it when we listen to other artists' music… we try to, anyway!

C.: Showing these small moments, without telling listeners how they should feel. Everyone reacts in their own way and visualizes it in their own way.

Along these lines, I find it really intriguing that musically the album paints a sort of American landscape as a repository of memories, while the lyrics sound very personal, pitched at the “you” level. I read, for instance, that you love Terrence Malick… how do you manage to combine the dimension of your personal storytelling with a musical and cinematic imagery that's also collective?

H.: It's all interconnected. I think Craig and I really trust each other. If Craig writes something, I hope he can trust how I'll sing over it. And vice versa – especially! – if I write a song, I put in all the parts and I can hear what Craig might do, I pass it to him and he adds all the magic he has…

C.: I don't know if it's magic, you write in a really personal way…

H.: And you feel it…

C.: Music is really made up of personal experiences you live through.

H.: He's brilliant at supporting the lyrics. There's always room for both of us. You'll never find selfish guitar parts. They're always parts that walk around the words, that sound the way the words sound. They fit perfectly… I don't know how you do it! (to C.)

There's phrasing in the guitar too, the melodies unfold in phrases just like the lyrics do…

H.: I love the way you play (to C.). He just does it, and it works so well… When we listen to a song with your parts, what you do really strikes me (to C.).

Two songs feature Sharon Van Etten, she really sounds integrated into your music. How did you collaborate with her, and what was it like working with her in the studio?

C.: It started two years ago when we released “Crème Brûlée” and she posted it on Instagram saying “Listen to King Hannah”. We couldn't believe it! We wrote to her to thank her. We got in touch with her again while we were making this record, given that episode, and thinking it would be amazing, we sent her some emails and demos asking if she'd like to sing, and she said yes. But the communication wasn't constant, there were gaps, so at one point we thought it wasn't going to happen anymore, so we finished the record, sent it to her, and she loved it. So she recorded her vocals in her garage studio in America and sent them back to us. We mixed them, it was actually the very last thing we did for the record. It was like the cherry on the cake. We still can't believe it, we're huge fans of hers!

H.: You were saying her voice fits the songs perfectly, right? It's an incredible thing! When we heard it we went crazy. Before hearing her parts, we had no idea how much the song needed them! What it does to the harmony... thank you Sharon!

C.: If you just listen to the vocal tracks it's wonderful...

It's another element of the record set within such a cohesive picture. It doesn't come to the foreground, it doesn't overdo it in the song.

H. & C.: Yes, it feels embedded in the song.

C.: She really did a great job. She's an incredible musician!

Where did you shoot the photo chosen for the cover? Another fascinating piece of your imagery, since it was your previous cover that we talked about last year...

C.: Hannah was submerged in the water. We were in Lanzarote, in January. We had the idea of how to do the photos, with Hannah submerged in water, and we were looking for a warm place.

H.: Water because the album is called "Big Swimmer", so we wanted it.

C.: And you'd also already had the idea of the face covered by hands. So we went there for a couple of nights, waiting for sunset. You were really cold (to H.).

H.: The thing is, we went to Lanzarote thinking it would be warm, but it wasn't...

C.: Come on, it was warm enough!

H.: It wasn't! We couldn't afford to go further away, like to Mexico or the Caribbean. It would have been better to go to the Caribbean, trust me (to C.)! There was no heated indoor lake, or heated pools that could pass for lakes... So we needed the sea, and we needed the sea to be mild. I didn't want to get into the water, it was cold! It turned out to be terribly cold and windy...

Perfect for the photo, but not for the swimmer!

H.: You took it!

C.: I brought two film cameras, I shot as many as I could!

But you're happy with the image, right?

H.: Yes, it's a great photograph.

And did you picture it beforehand?

H.& C.: Yes!

With the face covered by the hands…

H.: Yes, I think it's an image of vulnerability for a cover. I'm surrounded by seawater, in a vulnerable position. The hands on the face are a gesture of vulnerability. The album is very vulnerable. And also, I don't want to show my face.

We'll be waiting for you in Italy! Have you already planned a tour after the album's release?

We've planned the European tour for September, November and December. We have four Italian dates in July, the 21st here at the Triennale di Milano.

Thank you so much for your time and generosity.

H.: Thank you for the questions, they were great.

C.: Yes, you really dug deep into the album.

I'm glad to hear it, we'll wait until May 31st to talk about the album with everyone!

(31/05/2024)

***

The incredible year of the Liverpool duo

by Michele Corrado

Skilfully and distinctively blending seemingly distant musical strands such as dream-pop, post-hardcore, trip-hop and lo-fi, King Hannah have crafted what many consider the debut album of the year, "I'm Not Sorry, I Was Just Being Me". It's been an intense year for the Liverpool duo, who embarked on an extensive tour spanning Europe and the United States, playing increasingly bigger venues along the way. Craig and Hannah have finally returned home to gather their thoughts and enjoy a well-deserved break. We took the opportunity to chat with them about their music, the year that's just gone by, future plans and a few other juicy curiosities.

Hi guys, how are you, where are you right now?

Hannah and Craig: We're doing really well, thanks! We're in Liverpool and writing the new album!

You're very active on Instagram, always posting loads of stories, almost as if you were documenting where you're headed, where you'll be playing next. Following you, I could really get a sense of how intense and successful this year, which is just now coming to a close, has been for you. You've basically toured the whole world, filling bigger venues every night. What was it like receiving such a warm embrace from your fans? Did you expect it?

Hannah: it's been the most incredible year of our lives! Doing what you love and being able to share it with the world is the best feeling on the planet. Seeing the crowd sing our songs back to us in unison was a dream, a vision I've had for as long as I can remember: watching it come true from the stage was overwhelming and often reduced me to tears! Still, we don't feel like we've made it - quite the opposite, we want to keep making great music for the rest of our lives.

Craig: it's been a mad, overwhelming year. We couldn't have wished for a better one. Playing around the world for all those people is a dream come true, and we feel lucky to have been able to make it happen.

Always very moving, your music is a mix of different styles, where post-rock, post-hardcore, trip-hop and psychedelia can peacefully coexist. I know it's a strange question, but how did you arrive at such a melting pot, and how do you manage to keep all its elements so well balanced?

Craig: thanks, that's a really kind thing to say. I think our music is simply a combination of everything we love and everything we loved growing up. I don't think our music belongs to any one specific genre, probably precisely because it's a mix of so many different styles. And I also think that the music you love always finds a way to work itself into what you make.

Hannah: Definitely. Growing up we listened to so much different music, and when it came time to write the record, all of that music naturally seeped into our writing and our ideas.

So, how do you write your songs? Tell us a bit about the creative process behind "I'm Not Sorry, I Was Just Being Me"...

Hannah: I write most of the songs, giving them all the time they need in my room, and then, once I feel they're in good shape, I show them to Craig one by one. From there we work on them together, in our flat. We discuss their structure, the parts we'll each play individually, the moods and references contained within them. At that point, we often share the songs with the rest of the band through a Spotify playlist. It's really important that everyone gets on the same page sonically. Craig is the key man once we're in the studio, both technically and musically - he loves taking a very instinctive, experimental approach to recording, and I have to say he's really good at it. Honestly, we just focus hard on what we want to achieve and do everything we can to get there.

Even before listening to your debut LP, I was struck by its cover, that beautiful sunset in unspoiled nature. Lately I've noticed you've used other photos clearly taken from the same shoot as covers for new editions and versions of the record. Where were they taken? Tell us a bit about it... And why is Craig hiding his face?

Craig: the photos were taken in North Wales, not far from where Hannah grew up, which is why they also carry a sentimental value that fits well with the nostalgic mood of the record. On the cover, I'm not hiding my face on purpose - we simply chose a photo that seemed to tell a story that could go hand in hand with the music, while also elevating it to a slightly higher plane. That's the kind of art we love.

Hannah: besides, we personally prefer candid, natural photography, shot on an outdoor set rather than in a studio. We feel much more at ease with that kind of setting! And yes, we're very happy with how it turned out too.

Last spring I was at your show in Berlin, when you played "The Moods That I Get In", quite possibly your most escapist song - in that fantastic guitar style I also caught a hint of David Gilmour, who isn't exactly the first name that comes to mind listening to your music. Craig, do you actually like Gilmour, or was that just my impression?

Craig: I listened to Pink Floyd in my early teens, but then I sort of set them aside. Honestly, I'm much more influenced by guitarists like Neil Young, Nels Cline and Richard Lloyd, musicians who use the guitar to create different kinds of sonic textures and energies, a bit rougher and stranger. That's the kind of guitarists who really excite me.

During your live shows you often, if not always, play an incredible cover of Bruce Springsteen's "State Trooper", which in turn, if it isn't exactly a cover, is heavily inspired by Suicide's "Frankie Teardrop" by Suicide. Why this song? What does it mean to you?

Craig: Well, we adore Bruce Springsteen and especially "Nebraska", maybe precisely because it doesn't sound like a typical Springsteen record. It's very lo-fi and he recorded it himself on a four-track, so it has that DIY quality in the music that we love. It's also a song with an imagery, an atmosphere and a rhythm that drive us crazy, so we thought we could do something beautiful with it.

Hannah: I'm not as obsessed with "Brucey" as Craig is, but I love the rhyme of this song and its mood. Plus, I generally sing in my lower register and I think, and hope, that it suits this track well. And we love any song that lets us build up to a big, bombastic, emotional finale!

Last spring you also played in Italy, in Milan, Genoa and Rome. What did you make of our country and your Italian fans? Would you like to share a nice memory from those dates?

Hannah: yes, Italy is fantastic. The audiences at our Italian shows were really responsive, warm and close. They made us feel amazing, we love them. A few memories, sure... I fondly remember having to shorten our soundcheck for the Milan show because there was a pilates class scheduled at the same time in the same place! Before the Genoa show, on the other hand, we ate the best pesto pasta of our lives, and then of course I remember that on that very evening my older sister told me she was expecting her second child! And I could mention so many other wonderful memories...

Craig: the audience was definitely among the best we've ever had. Everyone was, if you'll forgive the term, so "vocal" and had so much energy. We really felt like they were with us the whole way, and that let us play some of our best shows ever.

I find your music to be very cinematic too, sometimes it really feels like your songs would be perfect to score scenes in a film. Do you draw inspiration from cinema as well? What are your favorite films?

Hannah and Craig: Thank you, that's also lovely to hear. Yes, we both love films and cinema in general, and that love definitely comes through when we write and record our music. We really like to think that our music can move people in that way, because we love the connection that can form between sound and image, the way one can elevate the other and vice versa. It's magic!

Craig: my favorite films are probably all from the 60s and 70s, movies like "Badlands" and "Five Easy Pieces", but also French films like "À bout de souffle". They're all films that feel really warm and full of humanity, and they give you the sense that cinema of that era was really pushing hard in terms of innovation and experimentation, both technically and in terms of storytelling.

Hannah: I love any film that makes me feel at home, where I like the aesthetic and the colors, films preferably shot in real places, real houses, real streets. Oh, and lately we're both huge fans of Ruben Östlund's films, I'm literally obsessed with everything of his I've seen and I can't stop thinking about it.

At the start of the interview you gave us the wonderful news that you're already working on new music...

Hannah and Craig: Yes, we're writing new music! It's been an extremely intense year, but now we can focus on writing the way we like to, taking our time and with plenty of it. Right now we're completely focused on writing the best possible album.

It's almost the end of the year, which means it's time for best-of-the-year lists, so play along with us! What's your album of the year?

Hannah and Craig: well, we both love the new Built To Spill record, "When The Wind Forgets Your Name". It really sounds like a mid-90s record and has so many interesting guitar parts, we listened to it non-stop for months. We also really loved Tomberlin's "I Don't Know Who Needs To Hear This...", and Babehoven's EP "Sunk".

The last question is a real tough one, consider yourselves warned. You're from Liverpool, one of the most important cities in the history of popular music. Who are your favourite musical fellow citizens? Both past and present!

Craig: it's funny because we never really think of ourselves as a Liverpool band, but I suppose technically we are. It's an obvious answer, but the Beatles had a massive influence on me growing up and are definitely my favourite band, even though they haven't really influenced King Hannah all that much. From our own era, though, I'd say Bill Ryder-Jones, who's genuinely written a good chunk of our favourite recent music.

Hannah: same answer, for obvious reasons! And yes, I agree on Bill Ryder-Jones too, he's put out some really beautiful stuff.

Thank you so much for your time.

Hannah and Craig: thank you for the interview and for your continued support!

(21/12/2022)

Ride the wave of great music

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This article is an English translation of the original Italian text by Maria Teresa Soldani, published on OndaRock.it. It was translated with the help of artificial intelligence, under the editorial responsibility of OndaRock's editor-in-chief, Claudio Fabretti.

Read the original in Italian · About the English edition