Giardini di Mirò - Giardini di Mirò - Beyond Post-Rock

A long exclusive conversation with Jukka Reverberi, guitarist of Giardini di Mirò, the day after the release of "Dividing Opinions", the album with which the Emilian band ushers in the start of 2007.

"Dividing Opinions" strikes me as a different record from the ones that came before it: even before listening to it, you get the sense that the band is much more self-aware. Almost as if you were a group with strong political overtones (which you probably are, if not in a direct way). The cover and the title are telling signs of this new disposition. How did you arrive at this "Dividing Opinions"? I mean, with what kind of attitude did you find yourselves watching it grow, over the days and months?

"Dividing Opinions" came about in a way that's markedly different from the previous "Punk... Not Diet". I'd say the two albums are opposites. In intent and in attitude. And I'm very proud of both of them.

"Dividing Opinions" is a record of personal maturity, one where the "rockstar wannabe" side has been told to piss off and quietly shut away in a room we no longer inhabit. So this is a much more thought-out album, but at the same time a freer one. Whereas with the previous record we arrived at the songs along the way and then worked hard on their "outward presentability", "Dividing Opinions" is an album that looks much more inward, at the band's internal life, with a strong concept tied to the songs. It's a very deliberate album in its freedom of expression: for the first time we've dropped the mask of ironic titles and playfulness, expressing ourselves clearly and directly when it comes to feelings and personal political stance.

If you just read the lyrics and the titles and look at the artwork, you can only conclude that we're a band with an interest in politics and in everyday life. Then, if you wanted to dig deeper, you could turn to interviews or other sources where you'd discover that I'm a Marxist, while others in the band describe themselves as left-wing in some way; others are only left-wing in a watered-down, "amatriciana" sort of way, some are secular but interested in the spiritual side of life. It all coexists within this group. But on tour, or in the van, we've often talked about things that weren't just the band's setup or records... We've talked a lot about politics... comparing notes... with differing opinions.

Perhaps the main intent of this album was also to come across as different from the "fun only" bands that in recent years have cultivated nothing but disengagement. I couldn't care less about that trend, which hasn't only affected political thinking but their whole attitude, including toward... I don't know... love, for instance, always portrayed as some little flower tucked behind the ear, or a single tear. Bullshit...

We love, we love politics, and we're critical by nature. Sure, we write pop songs like everyone else, but at least we keep an eye on the world around us... even if it's from a skateboard.

The actual songs, only sketched out on "Punk... Not Diet", this time are fully realized, finished. "Cold Perfection" and "Embers" are a clear example of this pursuit of a pop form, without betraying your style. I read on your blog that "you measure yourself against pop", in reference to Populous. Well, I think that phrase could also apply to your "Dividing Opinions", an album that has generated great expectations. Is this "measuring yourself against pop" a challenge that Giardini di Mirò are happy to take on?

Yes, yes. You're right, and my answer is that pop is the battleground: every other field is good, great, even essential, whether for practice or for pleasure. I do it fairly often myself, as do others in the band. I cultivate my own marginality and sidelong approach with great passion, but then I want Giardini di Mirò to be able to engage with the thing that most people consider a priority: pop music. So that's the ground on which to measure yourself... I mean measuring your own abilities, seeing, rereading and making your own the pop songs with easy melodies... We try to do it in a way that isn't banal, alternating compositional choices with melodies that are "felt".

The approach to songwriting on "Punk... Not Diet" was almost accidental. That is, the songs were already songs before the vocals were added... but they were only completed with them... even though that wasn't the original plan. On "Dividing Opinions" everything is functional and necessary almost from the very first moment. There was already an intention from the outset that was close to the final result.

Direct in the title, in the artwork, and in your own way also in the songs of this "Dividing Opinions", then. This need to assert your innermost identity goes, in my view, hand in hand with the emotions that the music you write conveys. I'm not just talking about this record, obviously, even though now there no longer seem to be as many constraints as could be felt in the past. The famous influences everyone has always talked about. The love of music, of the records of your life, etc. are, after all, noble enough reasons to pick up a guitar in the first place: that's how it starts, deep down. Let's say you look back for a moment. How much of that spirit and that passion is still present in your approach now, after three albums, several EPs, prestigious collaborations and an established status?

"Changing while staying yourself": I'd like to just answer you with that.

Last Sunday I spent an afternoon watching the DVD covering all the stages of development and recording -- you name it -- of that masterpiece called "Neon Golden" by Notwist, a record we've all loved dearly and one that has inspired us like few others, even though we sound very different. Well, anyway, there's a whole lot in that DVD that could genuinely be studied, if you want to understand what a good approach to making music in the studio should or could look like. I don't know, go watch it... Which is to say -- coming back to your question -- that we still listen to and greedily feed on other people's inspiration, other people's ideas, to make them a little bit our own too.

We still listen to way too much music, and if you tell me a track sounds like "my bloody rolling kraftwerk", I'm hardly going to answer "Hey, never heard of them... I absolutely have to check them out". That would be dishonest. A flat-out lie. We still listen to and collect a ton of music. For me it's essential to stay up to date on what people are listening to, on new productions, on new ways of putting music out there, getting it around, online communities, the tools being used... They answer my own curiosity, so of course we end up influenced by them. I'll never be influenced by a cross that turns into a goal in the 45th minute... But by music from around the world, yes.

Speaking more specifically about the musical side of things, the presence of your voice and Corrado's is, inevitably, the novelty that stands out from the very first seconds (even though you'd already stepped up as a singer on " North Atlantic Treaty Of Love "). What was your first approach to the microphone like? Did thinking like a vocalist, when in reality you (almost) never had been one, cause you any problems?

Thinking like a vocalist is a real mess. It's all extra anxiety and less room to play guitar. You have to learn to do things differently at thirty... as a self-taught musician. In short, it's not that simple. Then there's Alessandro's (Raina, ed.) legacy weighing on you. On record he did great things, and live too, after the first few uncertain months, he really made his mark. We got back together for one song, almost a year ago now... I was already singing one and a half songs: Alessandro got up on stage and wow... He sang a song like never before. That's when the doubts creep in. But the certainties are stronger, and that's fine.

You know, putting myself out front has never appealed to me, and I don't have a good relationship with microphones. But I do believe in the proggressive fate of humanity... heh heh... and likewise in mine/ours. Staying a five-piece was necessary to be able to rely on a very close-knit core: within that closed circle we found the motivation and courage to become what we are now. I like it, all things considered.

Also on your blog, I read about how you found yourself loving one of your own songs, even though it's not usually your habit to go back and listen to Giardini di Mirò records. That song, the title track, in my opinion is a perfect snapshot of the moment: your comeback, being a five-piece again, the approach to singing. A track that feels like a statement of intent, as if to say "This is what awaits you if you keep going." And indeed the first three tracks are the "newest" ones, where the evolution is most evident (along with the closing "Petit Treason"). Then there are the collaborations, which, paradoxically, are on the more "classic"-sounding tracks. How did they come about? Which tracks have you grown most attached to during these months of recording?

Honestly, I'm more attached to the idea of the album than to any single song. Because it's behind the album that there's collective work, and so the dimension of the band, which is still what drives me to make music with my friends. Only by listening to the whole album can I find a meaning in Giardini di Mirò. The individual songs speak more of one member or another, but put together they're like pieces of a puzzle that still sketch out a band.

The recording sessions were scattered and spread out over the course of a year, with breaks of months of total inactivity in between. "Cold Perfection" is a track we recorded exactly a year ago, and inevitably today I prefer other tracks, they sound fresher to my ears. But, I repeat, I still like the album as a whole, exactly as it is; every track works because it's placed within a... complex context. There's a journey there, the one we've gone through over the years as listeners, as fans and as musicians.

The collaborations, as always, were carefully chosen. Glen is the romantic who couldn't care less that being romantic in Milan today isn't considered cool: and that's exactly why we like him, his pen tells stories like few others can. He's a deeply genuine person, a lover of music, art and women in a non-superficial way, a true lover... so "thumbs up" for him.

Apparat is a livewire, and I mean that in the most positive sense. Apparat can't be contained, in his own way a genius of sound. He has a unique, brilliant touch. And I also think he's one of the few electronic artists capable of doing a live set where the computer is truly a tool used by the man, and not the other way around. So "thumbs up" for him too.

Your "Rise And Fall Of Academic Drifting", whether by chance or not, practically kicked off the "birth" of what everyone insists on calling the Italian "indie scene." Venues opened, evenings were organized, blogs on the subject sprang up like mushrooms... My impression is that that excitement has somewhat dissipated. How do you see the Italian music scene in general?

I want to be very, very honest, I don't care about selling myself well. I see the Italian scene as ravaged and barren, because of factors that nearly threw even us off course too. And, to put it bluntly, here's the thing: either you put the financial side last, as the very last reason for starting a band (or a label, a webzine, etc.), or you vanish in an instant (or you live in artistic and cultural mediocrity). Look, I'm not saying things were far better in the Nineties and early 2000s, but back then things were, in a small way, almost a little justifiable. Records for niche audiences still sold a bit. There was a bit more money around. Then the country's social landscape changed too, didn't it? Technology and the way music is consumed in all its forms changed, didn't it?

On the other hand, a thousand blogs have sprung up where, in truth, almost everyone secretly plays at becoming "the thinkers" or "the ones who set the coordinates," taking seriously certain articles written, say, about the American situation, which is completely different from ours, and believing that blogs in Italy could become important vehicles of cultural promotion, whereas in our country I'm convinced — and I think I've had proof of it — they end up being nothing more than simple outlets for personal itches. No offense to anyone, I do the same thing myself.

Basically, what I'm telling you is that that era was decidedly better. Everyone played out of the excitement generated by the last great independent scene, which was the post-rock one: a scene known among enthusiasts that, culturally, brought a lot of music from the past back to light too, and was fundamentally independent. Today's scenes, the ones everyone looks to, are the ones that catapulted the otherwise decent Arcade Fire, or the embarrassing Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, or Arctic Monkeys (who, though, are the ones I like best — not true — because maybe their young age guarantees them a bit more genuineness than the others), to success in a quarter of an hour. In short, it's a historical moment where success is thought about obsessively. I don't give a damn about that logic, so I don't miss the past, but I'd like a more conscientious present and a future where the "kids" would bust their asses to do their own thing, beyond prevailing taste, but with a genuine feel for art and musical passion.

At this point someone might reply that we ourselves played instrumental music early in our career to follow the success of other bands like Gremlins, and I'd start laughing, light a cigarette and throw it onto the gasoline surrounding everyone and... nothing. Nothing would catch fire. We're surrounded by a cultural desert.

(I know I might come across as arrogant in this answer, ok, I'll take that risk. Better arrogant than empty.)

Finally, I know you're not one for making end-of-year lists... But you told me you're voracious devourers of new music and old, so... Would you like to sign off by telling me what were the best listens of your year, new and old? Is there anything that particularly struck you?

Oh yes, ok Matteo, I'll do it. Actually, last year I refused to make playlists because I was angry: for me 2005 was the annus horribilis of music, apart from a couple of gems... but since we're made to contradict ourselves, here goes: Grizzly Bear – "Yellow House": I waited for this album obsessively... I expected it to be different, but it literally drove me crazy. I remember that the night before Miami (if you want to make a short film I can sell you the title and a story) I rode my bike around Cavriago with this record on my iPod; it was a very relaxing experience... there was no one on the street, especially out in the fields.

Parenthetical Girls: the first time I heard the band I hated them and dismissed them as a bunch of useless queens. Then I gave them another listen, but still no dice... and listened again, and still nothing. Finally, on holiday in New York, I saw them live while still jet-lagged, and that made me want to see them again. I love them, they're an exceptional band: I've bought all their records, even the Christmas CD-Rs.

Xiu Xiu – "The Air Force": they're an institution of pop and contemporary art. If you don't get that, you're way off track.

Keith Fullerton Whitman/Tim Hecker: uh, two Kranky records in 2006, I must be a nostalgic fool or a colossal bore! Whitman, with "Multiplies" (from 2005) and "Lisbon", kept me company on some very meaningful journeys. Tim Hecker is the emo-boy of drone: listening to him, I feel like a teenage girl in front of My Chemical Romance... warm, warm, warm, almost enough to make you scream. Listen to the latest record wrapped in fog...!

"El Perro Del Mar": an album of pop songs, very refined and Velvet-esque. Sweet, so sweet — I'd gladly spend a night with the singer listening to her talk about Godard, Truffaut, the Swedish winter, art in New York lofts, the meaning of life... and then head home in the morning without having done a thing... that would be fantastic...

Junior Boys – "So This Is Goodbye": this is my posh side. They're two losers. There's glacial silence in their songs: they're cold, but passionately so. Then, if you see them live, you realize it's no bluff; they get people dancing, but with actual songs, which doesn't happen very often in the "dance non dance" world. And if you want to dance to the White Stripes, be my guest...

Birchville Cat Motel – "Our Love Will Destroy The World": well, it's a drone-hardcore version of some hallucinations from Jesus And Mary Chain and My Bloody Valentine. He paints himself as a former metalhead turned avant-garde ecstatic... but I see him differently. Don't hold it against me, but this album burns. I also tracked down his "Chi Vampire", where the drones instead rest on Conradian violins and organs layered with found sounds. It's a towering piece of work.

Antony: I know he was trendy back in 2005, but I only had time to buy the record then. Then, this year in May, I got to know a girl I'd been seeing around for years here in Reggio Emilia. I'd always liked her; she says we used to say hello, but I don't remember that — I think we just knew each other by sight... Anyway, we've been together since May; she'd like to lure me away from Cavriago to Reggio, but she'll have to work hard for those damn 10 km. It's going to be a long, intense war... For now, we're both listening to both of Antony's albums, which are gorgeous. I mean, gorgeous. I repeat, gorgeous. I'll say it again: gorgeous.

Then, well, there's a whole world of music out there... New Order... how could you not listen to New Order obsessively?

In the first half of last year I rediscovered Wilco, who are massive. Truly! I'd never really got them, never fully heard them. Now I do.

Ride the wave of great music

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