Dresden Dolls - In the theatre of punk cabaret

I was hoping to meet both Brian and Amanda for this interview, but Amanda isn't available. I insist on at least getting to ask her a single question. One single question to put to her and her alone: to a woman who doesn't waste her time shaving her legs or armpits, but who carefully draws on her eyebrows with eyeliner. The promoter seems touched and promises to do her best. Meanwhile I meet Brian, and I'm delighted: first of all he tells me he likes the dress I'm wearing, then he smiles a great deal, cracks me up pulling funny faces, and he's got quite a way with words. Even though he's perhaps the thinnest man I've ever met, I have to admit Brian is a decidedly handsome man, and if “you think you've seen a pair of greener eyes – you sure haven't seen them up close” to his.

“Yes, Virginia…“, your latest album, is very different from the previous one. There are so many differences that maybe we should break it down piece by piece to properly analyze it. Let's start with the title: “Yes, Virginia…”. How much importance do you place on Virginia O'Hanlon's letter?

I think it basically sums up the band's attitude, the way we feel. It's like a philosophical sentiment: a lot of these songs deal with challenges, conflicts and confusing situations – the kind everyone has in their own life – and the title is a historical reference to a certain kind of hope we have, one that prevails. It's what, in life, keeps the human race going, otherwise we'd all just be dull lemons. There's definitely something that lets the human race keep finding something good in life, but I realize people are becoming more and more cynical, apathetic and confused.

Music is one of the few things that brings people joy, singing is a unifying ritual, it doesn't matter what your political or geographical background is.

We're all more alike than different, and it's important to never forget that.

Mmmh… And yet I find that “Yes, Virginia…” has something cynical about it…

Definitely, but it's important not to give in to it.

And there's no doubt we're talking about a political record here. We actually realized it would be as soon as the DVD came out… even the cover art confirms it.

It's important that people learn to think for themselves and not be like sheep in a flock, letting themselves be swayed too much by whatever various celebrities, politicians or others are saying. The moment we decide to play a song like “War Pigs” we can't help but say: “Next time you go vote, think hard about the consequences of your vote”, or even with a song like “Delilah”, based on a girl's emotions and the bad situation she finds herself in with a friend. These songs may or may not be directly political, but their influence definitely varies depending on where you perform them, and they certainly have a stronger impact than simply being told: “Do you think this or that?”.

Have you ever thought about moving somewhere else?

Of course! Obviously! (laughs) It's definitely demoralizing to feel less and less powerful as American citizens every time a situation puts the nation to the test. Every day that goes by I feel more and more played by our government, like when George Bush shamelessly cheated his way into being elected and nobody did anything to stop him. Or the clashes in Seattle during the protest against the WTO, where demonstrators were attacked and had to breathe in a ton of gas, and now, at every demonstration organized in the United States, everyone is intimidated and nobody rebels anymore. Or the flooding of New Orleans: it was a poor area, home to Black people, and it was completely ignored. Thousands of people died when they should have been helped. It's truly disgusting, it makes you feel completely… alone. I don't think this kind of behavior can be pinned only on the United States: it could happen anywhere in the world, and if you think things are any better in Europe or Australia, you're wrong.

Let's keep talking politics, in a way: on “Yes, Virginia…” you re-recorded “Mrs. O” (that “O” stands for Holocaust, and the track originally appeared on the live album “A Is For Accident”). Why?

I find that including it on a record that already contains several taboos – like sex, alcohol, envy – is perhaps a somewhat risky choice.

“A Is For Accident” was an album we put together while we were finishing our debut record, because people just kept asking us when it would be ready. That's how “A Is for Accident” came out: we had to release something to buy ourselves those eight months to get our first record out. It was basically a handful of songs we already knew, like “Bank Of Boston Beauty Queen” and “Christopher Lydon”, that we enjoyed playing. We didn't want to focus too much on them, we just wanted to give them a shape, and as we kept going we realized we were still playing “Mrs. O” at our shows and that it was a very tough song, so we decided to re-record it for this new album, to give it an even stronger rendition.

Your debut album, “ Dresden Dolls “, came out in 2004…

We released it independently in the United States in October 2003, and six months later it was reissued by Roadrunner for the international market.

So that's partly why it took almost two years to achieve the success you eventually had.

I guess so. We had to play a huge number of shows to get ourselves known.

Your motto is "Punk-cabaret is freedom", but a line in "Sing" goes: "Life is no cabaret".

(smiles) Well… the spirit of punk-cabaret is knowing you're free to be everything you are. Actually, Kurt Cobain used to say: "Punk is freedom", and Amanda took that statement and made it her own, as a kind of continuation.

In a sense, the spirit of what we do is that you can do what you feel like doing, when you feel like doing it, without needing to be something you're not: it's about being honest with yourself.

Two little rumors that might just be urban legends:

1. They say you went to mime school.

No. Never. I used to watch tons of cartoons and the Muppet Show, and that's why I make funny faces. It's all down to cartoons and Jim Henson.

So that's an urban legend.

Yes.

2. You started wearing makeup before shows simply because you had nothing else to do.

No. No, no. Not because we had nothing to do: we deliberately didn't want to wear makeup because we wanted people to focus on the music we were playing. We started wearing makeup just for fun. One night we did a show together with a Burlesque Troupe, and we figured dressing in their style would be more of an asset to the band than a hindrance. It was clear it worked well and was a lot of fun, so we decided to keep it up.

So that one's an urban legend too.

Yes.

Let's talk a bit about "Paradise", the DVD.

I think "Paradise" is a great way to show a huge number of people where we come from, what a typical day in the life of the Dresden Dolls looks like, both at home and on tour, with every possible mishap along the way.

Our fans' performance is hugely important too. It's also a wonderful way to let people know what our shows are like, what Amanda and I actually do on stage: it's just the two of us playing, no frills.

I think the essence of all this comes across really well in the DVD, without it feeling like a reality TV show.

Browsing your website, you get the impression you're anti-celebrities. I'm thinking of the sections dedicated to press that trashes you and the hate mail you receive, for instance, but also the "Karaoke Veritée" section (your own personal takes on other artists' music videos). It really seems like you don't buy into your own success.

Well... I think so. Maybe.

Maybe we just don't take it too seriously. We thought some of the hate mail was pretty funny, and so were some of the articles that trashed us. Then, you know, you have to consider that the moment you read a negative article about yourself and post it on the site, it takes the pressure off. It's funny on one hand, but it's also fair: we don't have one of those websites where all it says is, "See how cool we are?" You get the full spectrum of what people think of us.

Brian, when you read a critical article about you, does it upset you?

Of course, obviously! But these days I don't read what they write about us anymore, because it all just turns into junk in my head, whether it says: "The Dresden Dolls are the greatest band ever" or "The Dresden Dolls totally suck." I know what I like and what I want to do with the band, and that's it.

Back to your website, where you invite fans to record your shows and then share those recordings.

People would do it anyway, we just say it's fine with us. We also think it helps the band: people who don't know us will get a sense of what we sound like live.

Anti-celebrities, then, yet you inspired the Living Dead Dolls: the ones modeled on you are called Jack and Jill and they cost an arm and a leg!

Yeah, it's strange. The guy who handles our merchandise said, "We should sell those too!" and a minute later we heard him go, "Nooo!"

Did you know they were going to use you for their collection? Did they ask your permission?

Yes, we knew, but no (he smiles), they didn't ask permission.

Anyway, I think our look is pretty common: we didn't invent the bowler hat or striped tights, plenty of people wore them before us and plenty more will wear them after. I don't find it that surprising.

You're working on a theatrical pièce right now.

Yes.

Can you tell me about it?

Nooo… we still don't know what it'll be like. The idea's still taking shape at the moment. It'll be some kind of collaboration between the Dresden Dolls, the screenwriter and the director and… it'll last an hour and a half and there'll be acted-out parts and musical improvisations and… there'll be dialogue with the band… nobody knows what's going to come out of it!

Coachella, Rockskilde, Glanstonbury, Fuji Rock, just to name a few. Do you enjoy playing festivals?

Absolutely not (smiles). When you do it practically every day, especially in a cold, rainy European country, it's horrible. You're always cooped up in this kind of container… We usually play in the afternoon, when the weather's always at its worst, and it feels very commercial: "Get up on stage, play, get off." Once in a while it can be fun: Fuji Rock was fantastic, but I wouldn't want to do it every day. They're definitely worth doing, but I'd rather play proper shows.

What about the audience?

You can't really interact much with people. I'm sure for the biggest shows, for the last three bands, it's different, but when we play, most people are just looking at the stage thinking: "Who the hell is this?" It's not very rewarding.

Your videos are always very distinctive. Do you enjoy making videos?

Yes! We love making videos, it's fun, and working with Michael Pope is fantastic.

The video we shot for "Sing" was a wonderful experience: all the people who helped shoot the videos for "Coin-Operated Boy" and "Girl Anachronism," plus everyone else who joined in over those three days… A truly lovely experience: for once we got to sit back and watch everyone else create this beautiful video.

Amanda comes over the exact moment I put the recorder away. I grab my bag, dump the whole contents onto the table and finally find the little green plastic ring I was looking for: "Amanda, I know it's not precious or expensive, and I have to confess I stole it last week, but… will you marry me?" Amanda puts on my green plastic ring and looks at her hand, fingers spread wide: "I like this ring, so the answer is yes!" Wow! Now I'm engaged!

(Milan, June 1st, 2006)

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