Claudio Poggi

Claudio Poggi is no ordinary figure. He was, in fact, the first (back when he was still a “simple” music critic) to believe in the talent of Pino Daniele, recommending him to Emi Italy and producing, in 1977, “Terra mia”, his historic debut album. That formative period has been recounted by Poggi himself, with the help of Daniele Sanzone, in “Pino Daniele. Terra mia”, a book published by Minimum Fax in 2017 that offers a story rich in anecdotes and passion. Ten years after the death of one of the most beloved Italian artists of all time, here is our conversation with a “craftsman of music”.

Claudio, can you tell us how you met Pino Daniele?

I met him in 1976, because I was working as a journalist for a weekly magazine, “Super Sound”, and I was on the hunt for artists and bands playing a different kind of music, the kind that we young people appreciated because it came from abroad and was far removed from the saccharine stereotypes of Italian pop. Pinotto (Pino's nickname, ed.) was playing in a band, Batracomiomachia, whose ranks included Rosario Iermano on drums, Paolo Raffone on piano, Rino Zurzolo on bass, Enzo Ciervo on vocals, Gianni Battelli on violin and Enzo Avitabile on sax and flute.

The first songs of his that you heard were “Che calore!”, “Furtunato”, “Terra mia” and “‘Libertà”. What was it about them that struck you in particular?

Above all, that new way of composing, which combined a modern, street-level Neapolitan language that was at the same time popular, with a musicality very close to that of our foreign idols. “Libertà”, one of my favourite songs, struck me as a West Coast-style track, with those acoustic guitars flowing into that electric guitar riff, and lyrics that I still consider among his finest.

Back then, before you met Pino, you worked as a music critic. What was the pop and rock scene like in Naples at that time?

In that historical period, there was a clear-cut divide between pop music and the so-called avant-garde; there wasn't the crossover appeal that exists today, where young people listen to and follow both Ramazzotti and Litfiba alike: we were more hardline, perhaps more consistent. So bands and singer-songwriters, influenced by the great international icons, tried to learn the musical technique and develop it further with a new language too. It was extraordinary to see how many movements and creative ferments were emerging and spreading across the various genres, from folk music, with the Nuova Compagnia di Canto Popolare, to jazz-rock, with Napoli Centrale, to rock, with Osanna, and to top-tier singer-songwriting with the great Edoardo Bennato. In short, there was plenty to enjoy, and all of this mirrored the class struggle, the breaking down of social barriers and of the clichés we were eager to move beyond. What's more, back then the first international artists started coming to Italy, which showed us what real music actually was. Unfortunately, today I see that “Se bruciasse la città” or “Rose rosse per te” are more popular hits than ever, appreciated both by young people and by those of my generation, and I honestly can't understand why - obviously without taking anything away from the professionalism of an artist like Massimo Ranieri.

How did you view the so-called Neapolitan Power movement at the time, and how do you view it today? Why did such a musical movement develop precisely in that particular historical phase?

Neapolitan Power, or rather Naples Power, was a slogan with a few putative fathers, such as Raffaele Cascone and Renato Marengo, intellectuals, journalists and radio hosts who christened this progressive musical wave that, day after day, grew into a whirlwind and swept across the country, proving that Naples wasn't just a picture postcard, but a city full of energy that was soon to explode both socially and musically. It couldn't have happened otherwise, and not in any other period, because young people felt the need to reclaim their connection to Vesuvius, the sea and pizza, trying to give it a truer, stronger, angrier, but above all more real face. What's more, people were starting to travel, to come into contact with other cultures, and to realise just how important and meaningful this sense of belonging to Naples really was. Today, on the other hand, I don't think we can talk about Naples Power, but rather about a healthy movement, even if less angry and less driven, that wants to recapture that energy - perhaps starting right from Pino's lesson - and turn it into something meaningful. Unfortunately, though, in my view, the social motivation is missing.

In your view, was Pino Daniele also influenced by the research that, with the support of Roberto De Simone, the Nuova Compagnia di Canto Popolare carried out on the body of folk music?

Absolutely! At the start, Pino wasn't just influenced, but strongly drawn to folk music and to a master like Roberto De Simone. In fact, he began studying, with great passion, mandolin technique from the books and scores of maestro Anepeta. But his great gift was being able to adapt a strange and difficult instrument like the mandolin to funky and blues rhythms, even creating genuine sections meant to stand in for the horns.

What were the strengths and flaws of Pino Daniele the man?

I'll tell you: I feel a certain reticence talking about Pino Daniele the man, or rather about Pinotto, because it's something that touches me very deeply. Only my “little brother” Daniele Sanzone managed, in our book “Pino Daniele. Terra mia”, to dig - not without difficulty - into my memories. So much so that we argued more than once, because his entirely legitimate curiosity clashed with my reserve. What I can say is that Pinotto was a young man like so many others, with strengths and flaws, but with an incredible ability and conviction when it came to pursuing his goal: playing music.

What does an album like “Terra mia” still have to say today?

"Terra mia", today more than ever, stands as a landmark record in Pino Daniele's musical journey, because it already hinted at themes and genres he would go on to develop extraordinarily in later albums: folk music, blues, the singer-songwriter tradition, funk, but also that poetic language which, even though he would later refine it further, was already operating at an extraordinary level on this record.

At one point in your book, you quote some words of Pino's about racism: "Noi siamo come i negri. Il razzismo c'è, lo vivo, l'ho vissuto e sono convinto che c'è?". So did Pino also have to contend with the usual prejudices against "terroni"?

Back then, and sometimes even now, there was a certain racism (even if masked by polite smiles) toward anyone who wants to assert their own culture and language. We were aware of it, sometimes it made us angry, other times we tried to mock them back. The fact is that when you want to communicate something important, it's frustrating to be mocked or to have to put up with little jabs that trivialize what you're trying to say

Why did your paths part shortly before the release of his second album?

Our personal relationship never broke down. There were just some disagreements that led to us going our separate ways, because I wasn't able to give Pino the leap in recognition he needed.

Can you share an anecdote from the "Terra mia" period?

There's a little-known anecdote from the period right after the album came out, when Pino was eager to play live but, being still fairly unknown, didn't have many chances to perform. So one day he calls me, and I go over to his place (where he lived with his aunts), and there, wearing a cowboy hat and holding his guitar, he performs an instrumental version of "Na sera 'e maggio" using a vocal box. I look at him, stunned, and he tells me: "I'll wear the hat, grow a moustache, and pass myself off as a foreign musician under the pseudonym Alex Thoromp". I burst out laughing and ask him: "Where on earth did you come up with this Thoromp?". To which, laughing, he replies: "This way we bust everyone's balls!". We recorded two demos, really good ones too, but EMI didn't want to move forward with that project

How do you assess Pino's musical journey starting from his self-titled 1979 record? If you had to pick just five albums to recommend to someone who's never heard a single note of his, which would you choose... and why?

His musical output up to "Vai mo'" (1981) was consistently top-notch. In my view, and with no disrespect to what followed, his first five albums are exceptional and capture Pino Daniele the artist in his full integrity. That said, there are songs like "Quando" (1991) that are true rare gems. But I believe those first five albums are enough to get "infected" with the Pino "bug": "Terra mia" (1977), "Pino Daniele" (1979), "Nero a metà" (1980), "Vai mo'" (1981) and "Bella 'mbriana" (1982).

Before he died, when was the last time you saw him?

Answering this question opens up an old wound: we met in Naples at the end of December 2013, during the "Napule è - Tutta n'ata storia" mini-tour. We didn't talk much, we didn't need to: there was an understanding in our glances and in the few words we exchanged. As usual, he asked about my mother, but by then she was sadly no longer with us. There was no chance to reminisce about the old days, since there were so many friends and musicians around us.

It's been ten years now since Pino passed away. What do you miss most about him?

What I miss most about Pinotto is his smile, his friendship, and his eagerness to always be ready to come up with new musical ideas and lyrics that stayed close to the reality he was living.

Despite all its problems, Naples remains a musically vibrant city. Still, today's Naples isn't the Naples of 1977. In your opinion, what are the most obvious differences?

In my opinion, today's Naples is more mature, more aware of its potential, and more international. As for the downsides, ignorance makes it more violent, less humane and more ruthless. But I want to keep believing that Naples is a city with a big heart and enormous creativity.

How do you think Pino Daniele would judge today's rap music, Neapolitan and otherwise? And how do you judge it yourself?

Pino always felt close to new musical movements, especially those tied to his own land, and in a way rappers represent the new musical wave that's so close to today's youth, so, in its best forms, he would have liked it a lot. I, on the other hand, am much more critical, and I'm not too fond of the lack of melody and that obsessive rhythm, which almost never opens up into broader musical territory. That said, there are two Neapolitan artists I don't actually produce myself, but whom I like enormously, and who represent a really interesting new frontier for Neapolitan music: I'm talking about Flò and Roberto Colella of La Maschera.

You've described yourself as a "craftsman of music". Can you explain exactly what you mean by that?

I call myself a "craftsman of music" because I try to draw out an artist's true essence and their ability to communicate, working against market logic, fads and the usual formulas for success.

Right now I'm working with a new singer-songwriter, Carlo Vannini, who in my opinion is very talented; we recently released an EP together called "Punto e accapo", and I think both the music and the lyrics are fairly fresh and interesting.

What is Claudio Poggi doing today?

I keep searching for musical talent that can offer an alternative to a market that, frankly, is pretty flat and unexciting these days. As a music publisher, I try to find opportunities, especially abroad, to give songs of real artistic value new life through cover versions and adaptations by other artists. Take, for example, "Vasame", a true classic by Enzo Gragnaniello, which among other versions has a Turkish rendition sung by Seran Bilgi, or a Milan-based group, Descarga Lab, who perform some of Pino Daniele's songs in Spanish, with a Caribbean-style arrangement.

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