Tarwater - The Alchemists of Indietronica

Tarwater are one of the finest acts on the effervescent German indietronic scene. Ronald Lippok (vocals, drums, programming) and Bernd Jestram (guitar and bass) are old friends: both originally from East Berlin, they've been playing together since 1981. After a long underground apprenticeship that saw them involved in projects quite distant from one another, from punk to post-rock by way of new wave, the two founded Tarwater in 1995, initially intending it as a side project of To Rococo Rot, the band in which Lippok plays drums. With five albums and two EPs to their name, and a musical vision rooted in the glorious tradition of German technopop, Tarwater stand out thanks to a brilliant alchemy between icy electronics and minimal acoustic folk. It's all held together by the warm voice of the "non-singer" Ronald Lippok, whose languid, melancholic delivery is the band's true trademark.

The inner courtyard of Sala Biancamano – the Museo Della Scienza e Della Tecnologia – with its war planes proudly on display on the wide lawn, is a rather unusual place for an interview, but it's preferable to the hall where preparations are still in full swing for the upcoming TDK Dance Marathon. Sitting on the damp grass, under a sky troubled by clouds that feel more like early autumn than late spring, the informal and chatty Bernd Jestram and Ronald Lippok, aka Tarwater, grant Onda Rock this exclusive interview.

"The Needle Was Travelling" is your fifth full length album. It's also the most pop thing you've done. You started out with avant-garde electronic music and have arrived at avant-garde pop. What's behind this greater accessibility?

Ronald: Well, we started playing ten years ago, and we've always been interested in "songs". We used to say so with a friend we like listening to old music with. I wouldn't say Tarwater make avant-garde music – our friend says we make "broken pop", because there's always an element that runs against the grain of pop melody. Sure, we've sometimes used typically avant-garde instruments, but the voice has always been there; we want to keep a direct, emotional relationship with the listener, and maybe that's what you're reading as the pop side of the new album.

Already on "Dwellers On The Treshold" you could increasingly hear acoustic instruments, guitar first and foremost, and on the new album we even heard strings and horns. More and more songs (in the strict sense) and more and more "played"... Are you perhaps getting tired of electronics?

Bernd: No, I wouldn't say that at all. At most, to sound more direct, we've moved from a longer song form to a shorter one, but we've always used guitars and other acoustic instruments. On the last record we simply felt the need to use these sounds more.

Let's talk about "Babylonian Tower". On the previous record you covered the Swans' "Miracle Of Love", a really beautiful cover by the way, and now this one by Minimal Compact: both cult bands coming from the 80s. Are those your roots, your listening habits, so to speak?

Ronald: In the case of Babylonian Tower I was simply in the studio and started humming this 80s song, and since we liked the result, we started recording. I didn't even really know the words, we had to look them up afterwards, but I have to say the lyrics ended up fitting the cover really well. We also know Martha Spigel, formerly of Minimal Compact, who plays with Colin Newman of Wire, and she told us she really liked the cover!

Staying on the subject of the "80s": last year you collaborated with Tuxedomoon on their new album " Cabin In The Sky ". Can you tell us something about that experience? How did they get in touch with you?

Ronald: We never actually met them, their label contacted us and sent us all the material. It was interesting because they write these very long tracks, while at the same time we were working on much shorter things, around three minutes; it was also great because their stuff is so recognizable, you immediately think: "Ah yes, this is really Tuxedomoon!". Anyway, we had a lot of fun working with them.

And which German musicians are you listening to right now? You have so many good bands over there...

Ronald: I really like Alter Ego and the whole electroclash movement, like Peaches and the Kitty-yo productions. There are several very good German bands that unfortunately aren't well known abroad, like Tocotronic... Maybe you know Whirlpool Productions, who became famous a few years ago with the hit "From Disco To Disco"... Well, they're part of the Cologne scene that makes much more minimal techno and disco music.

Bernd: I'm extremely surprised by the vitality of the German scene, there's really so much music, in so many different genres, some already released and a lot still being produced, it's incredible!

There are historic groups like Faust who are more active than ever. And last year even Kraftwerk came back, and DAF too! I think this is also thanks to the vitality of groups like you, Notwist , Lali Puna , Kreidler, Audiac... Artists quite different from one another, but who keep the scene alive. What do you think about that?

Ronald: We played with Lali Puna in Munich, also because we're on the same label (Morr Music, ed.), I really like their music... Then I don't know if you know Konamat, an artist of Iranian origin who makes electronic music but adds exotic instruments, and I really appreciate these kinds of experiments. As for DAF, we saw them in Dijon many years ago before they broke up, we grew up in East Germany and we were DAF fans, but after the reunion we never had the chance to see them again, also because the drummer broke his hand, which was a shame because he was one of my favourite drummers! I've got nothing against these historic groups getting back together, as long as they're actually making new songs, new records, not just playing old stuff to make a bit of money... For instance, I think New Order are still doing new, worthwhile things.

Do you know any Italian musicians?

The first ones that come to mind are Yuppie Flu, because we've played together several times, and I like their rock attitude. We also know Retina.it, who opened for us in Naples, and with whom we put together a compilation ("Condominium", ed.). A lot of bands don't like having opening acts at their shows, but we actually value it, especially when we play abroad, because it's a way to get to know a country, hearing the music being made there, just like tasting its food or visiting its cities.

Where does that nostalgic, melancholy aura that runs through your music come from? Ronald's detached voice certainly helps in that sense, but it seems to us that the lyrics also contribute to creating this mood. Would you call yourselves melancholic musically? And are you melancholic in everyday life too?

Ronald: I think melancholy can become very intense and blur into self-pity... I hope ours doesn't come across that way, because for me melancholy can actually be pleasant, in a way; you're right to call it "nostalgic" — it makes me think of a line by the German poet Heine, who says "I don't know what it means, but I am so sad". Actually, I do realize Tarwater sound a bit melancholic, but I don't know why! (laughs)

Ronald, what are the differences in compositional approach between Tarwater's music and that of To Rococo Rot? And above all, which of the two do you consider the side project?

Ronald: For me they're more or less equivalent in importance, and even in sound really, because I often use the same sounds in one and the other. What's different, though, is the atmosphere, the sound definition, which is very different... For me it's very easy when I'm composing to say "this track is for To Rococo Rot" and "this one is for Tarwater"

What's the record you've listened to more than any other, the one that shaped you as a listener before it did as a musician?

Ronald: Oh, this kind of question is so hard... in the end I'll say "Velvet Underground & Nico", a fantastic record... yes, I'd say it's my favourite, even though there are so many records that have been important to me...

Bernd: Yes, I'd say the same, although I'm on Lou Reed's side and he's on Nico's! (laughs)

Last question: we've noticed that the people who usually come to your shows don't dance. Are you happy with this kind of audience, somewhere between "rock" and "indie", or would you like to make something more danceable?

Ronald: After recording in the studio, we always go out to some club in Berlin, and the DJs we hear there (there are some really great girls) influence us a lot, they give us a lot of inspiration for new sounds. Of course, at a show I'd never say "hey guys, shake your ass a bit"! If they want to lie down on the grass, that's fine by me, we played at a festival once and people started dancing and it was just as great... Basically the audience is free to enjoy our music however they want, I wouldn't have a problem playing in a theatre, for instance.

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