Pains Of Being Pure At Heart - Pop for the pure of heart

The Pains of Being Pure At Heart, whatever you make of that name — once you've heard it, you never forget it — are one of the most interesting outfits on the global indie scene. After releasing two EPs and an album, all of a solid standard, they're now in the process of recording their second record. We reached the band's singer and leader, Kip Berman, by email, and he gave us this exclusive interview.

My first question is about your band's name, which I find gorgeous. I think it's really original and immediately grabs attention. As for the meaning, it makes me think of how the "pure of heart" and the most sensitive people are destined to be unlucky in love and to suffer more, and more deeply, than everyone else. What do you think?

The name is taken from a fairy tale written by an old friend of mine. It just seemed like the perfect phrase for our band the first time I heard it. As for what you're saying about how the "pure of heart" are destined to suffer more than others, honestly I have no idea what to tell you. As our keyboard player Peggy likes to say, we're simply an honest, pure pop band, but I think it's precisely that sincere spirit of ours that makes so many people listen to us and follow us.

Speaking of the female element in your band, is it true you played your first show at her birthday party? Was she already in The Pains of Being Pure at Heart?

It's true that our first show was held at Peggy's birthday party, and she was already part of the band. It was Kurt who wasn't in yet — in fact we had an iPod playing the drum parts. I have to say he's definitely better than the iPod.

Talking about your influences, your love of bands like The Pastels is well known. In fact a lot of journalists link your music, alongside that of Jesus & Mary Chain and My Bloody Valentine, to the C86 strand of indie-pop, named after the cassette that NME's editorial team put together that year to give readers something to counter rock's declining fortunes against hip-hop — a tape made up largely of indie bands with a guitar sound that was at once sweet and noisy. In some songs, like "Stay Alive" and "A Teenager in Love", you also remind me of Belle & Sebastian in the vocals, and of The Cranberries, Lush and Sixpence None The Richer in the sound — basically all those pleasantly melancholic pop bands of the '90s. What do you make of that?

I'm flattered: those are all great bands you're mentioning. Actually, the other day, while we were recording a new song, we kept telling each other: "We need to sound more like Sixpence None The Richer!"

I really like the cover of your album, with that black-and-white photo of two pretty girls smiling — simple yet stimulating, and it really sets the imagination going. Who are they, and who decided to put them there?

The girls are Kendra Rutledge and her friend Parry. Kendra is our go-to photographer, and we used a lot of her work for our latest EP, "Higher Than The Stars", as well as for our merchandise, from t-shirts to buttons. Kendra is hugely talented and her ideas fit perfectly with our music. As for choosing the cover, that was my decision, but everyone in the band was on board with it.

My favorite songs of yours are "The Tenure Itch" and "Higher Than The Stars", while "This Love Is Fuckin Right" is great too, though I prefer a softer version of it I heard online. Who's mainly responsible for the band's sound, and for the songs in general?

I write the songs, but how they turn out in the end depends on everyone's creativity and input. It's like I start out sketching an outline, and then everyone else helps color in the different parts before we get the final picture. The songs would be pretty terrible if it were just down to me. The one part I handle entirely on my own is writing the lyrics. As for "This Love is Fucking Right", do you mean the difference between the album version and the EP version? The EP one was recorded with a drum machine, and all the changes come from having an actual human being on drums. I agree with you, the one on the album is weaker than the other version, and that bugs me, because it really could have been one of the highlights of the album.

Kip, in your opinion, where should the best songs on a record be placed?

The second, third and seventh tracks are singles, and also the songs you want people to remember. There's nothing better than listening to the first four tracks of an album and falling instantly in love. The opening and closing tracks are made specifically to sit in that spot, so they're shaped by that. Track five is the last one before the end of the first half of the album, and in my opinion it needs to be shorter and darker. The next one, track six, introduces the second half of the record, while tracks eight and nine need to be really high quality, in a way I'd call classic "sunset" mode, like "Black Star" on "The Bends" or "The Informers" off "Love At Absolute Zero" by My Favorite. Those songs are really powerful, even though they sound like sad, "last days" kind of songs. You don't even fully register how beautiful they are, because the album's experience is about to end. I can tell you, though, that our albums will only ever have ten songs, because with longer records you always get the feeling there are tracks that really didn't need to be there. I'd hate for anyone to call one of our LPs too long. There's nothing wrong with being epic, but double albums are usually awful and should be illegal. "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" by Smashing Pumpkins could have been even better than "Siamese Dream" if it hadn't been stretched out over 28 tracks. That said, there are exceptions: "Dog Man Star" by Suede is one of my all-time favorite LPs, even though every song is around seven minutes long and tied to a feeling of love gone wrong, even tragically so. That record moves me deeper than any other.

Why did you decide to record an EP right away instead of getting straight to work on a new album?

Well, our LP came out in 2009, but we had several new songs we wanted to play live and also wanted to make available in studio versions. Plus we really liked the idea of an EP because it gives us more freedom: some of the songs we included wouldn't have worked for the next album, but they were still good, and we wanted to give people the chance to hear them without all the weight of expectation that comes with releasing the second record.

I've read that among your friends you have several English colleagues, and in particular Peggy is a big listener of a lot of Scottish bands. Which are your favourites: the more rock-oriented and famous ones like Franz Ferdinand, Glasvegas and View, or others?

I love Franz Ferdinand a lot, but generally I prefer bands like Pastels, Teenage Fan Club, Close Lobsters, The Wake, The Vaselines, Orange Juice and Belle & Sebastian. I think Peggy feels the same way I do.

I know you were a huge Nirvana fan. Do you think that if Kurt Cobain were still alive and the band were still together, they'd still be making successful records?

Probably not. Every subsequent album would be hailed as a return to the form of their glory days, even though there'd probably only be the odd brilliant moment, maybe an interesting cover, maybe a record that sounds pissed-off and irreverent, like someone flipping you the middle finger, or maybe, on the contrary, a commercial rock album that would get played on the radio in place of 3 Doors Down and Papa Roach… who knows! Still, it would have been great to see what would have happened. Try listening to the Indelicates song "If Jeff Buckley Had Lived", paying close attention to the lyrics (the song talks about a hypothetical weak, disappointing second effort and the "difficult third album").

Anyway, I'd really love it if he were still with us, and if that were the case Kurt would probably say, "I really don't give a damn if video games use my image!", which would be a fair point, especially in contrast to the ridiculous reverence still shown towards Jim Morrison and all those rockstars who die young. If he were still alive, Courtney Love wouldn't be controlling his estate, and he'd probably be taking Wavves and Yellow Fever on tour with his band! Jokes aside, I think it's right to move on and not dwell on it. People need to realize that the next Nirvana is about to play an amazing show next week, and that what's happening right now is no less important or extraordinary than what happened in the past.

Both Pitchfork (giving the album 8.4 and the following EP 8.0) and NME (a full 8 for the album, which was ranked fifteenth in their best albums of 2009 list) have always supported you. Which one do you like more?

We're really grateful to the press for all the support we've received so far, it's crazy when I think about all the people who've been behind our band, and I'll take this chance to thank everyone. Between the two, I'd pick Pitchfork, also because they really pushed our record and even invited us to play their stage in Spain at Primavera Festival and at their own festival in Chicago: both experiences were really positive, and we're hugely grateful for the help they gave us.

In my opinion Sensible Soccer for Amiga is the best football game ever made, despite the small, hideous little men, and despite how attached I am to Microprose Soccer for Commodore 64/128 and, these days, to ISS Pro Evolution. Believe it or not, as a teenager I'd play it for three or four hours straight, and I even managed to make my favourite team, Cesena, win the Champions League. Why did you put it in the thank-you list?

When we came to England for our first tour, in February 2008, we stayed with our friends in Manhattan Love Suicides, and they had that game. We played it a ton, I really fell in love with it, even though football, as you well know, isn't very popular where we're from. We decided to thank Sensible Soccer as a symbol and a reminder of the friendship with those guys and of those hugely fun days.

Do you have any plans to come back and play in Italy?

Yes, we'd love to come back to your country and, more generally, play more dates in Europe. The last time we came we played alongside Vivian Girls (on 31 May in Ravenna and 1 June in Milan, ed.) and we had a lot of fun. We hope to visit other cities next time too, and get to see more of Italy.

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