Mountain Goats - The Bite of Reality

It takes courage to look experience in the face. Especially when reality seems to contradict desire. Mountain Goats songs have always been brave: they confront life in all its aspects, even the rawest ones. In the wake of "The Life Of The World To Come", John Darnielle reveals to us the fabric of his songs, always intent on questioning every circumstance in an effort to grasp its meaning, unafraid to measure himself against the possibility of an answer. An opportunity to rediscover the dense discography of one of the most brilliant songwriters of recent years, from the spartan DIY approach of the Nineties to the more polished atmospheres of the albums made for 4AD. Always in the name of a songwriting with a literary spirit and a vibrant, uncontainable urgency.

Your first records are made of bare sketches built on voice and acoustic guitar. Did you ever believe in a kind of “lo-fi aesthetic”, or was it simply a matter of necessity?

Both, more or less… In the sense that I didn't have anything more sophisticated than a cassette recorder, but the reason I used it is that I liked how it sounded. If I hadn't liked the sound, I probably wouldn't have kept recording. The aesthetic had its appeal, but it wasn't the main thing, it was more like a nice surprise.

Do you think imperfection itself can be used as a means of expression?

…Not really. Imperfections are fine, but when you're in a sense aware of your own imperfection, boasting about showing off the imperfections, you betray the whole purpose of the exercise, you know? Let's say imperfections are fine in something because they bring a human touch, but that only happens when they're honest. If someone simply isn't putting in full effort, it's not charming, it's cloying.

A few months ago you presented your latest record, “The Life Of The World To Come”, on the talk show The Colbert Report. Stephen Colbert dubbed your music “cheerful desolation”: what do you think of that definition?

Yes, I think it was fitting. The point of the stories I tell is that there's a kind of animal pride you can have in the circumstances of your life, no matter what those circumstances are. Even in the worst situation, there's something funny, or a ray of light, I think.

On your latest record, every song draws inspiration from a Bible verse. What do you think makes those words still able to speak to the human heart today?

Oh wow, this is a complex question. I mean, for Western society, the stories contained in there are our collective imagination; they're the stories that more or less we all know. It's something profound; a shared story is a common currency, a common language. And then there's the way we've all heard those words so many times; Protestants say that repetition is pointless, but I'm Catholic, and for me repeated words have real power, and so a phrase you've heard over and over takes on a hypnotic, foundational power. There are so many reasons why biblical verses retain their power, and even increase it.

In a recent interview, you said that most people of our generation want to say they think for themselves, while you're more interested in thinking with someone else's head and being able to say "I trust you". The idea of faith that emerges from "The Life Of The World To Come" isn't one of irrational illumination, but of a path that leads to trusting someone else. Where does this conception come from for you?

I think that's what faith is: looking outside of yourself. And I think I picked up this definition from reading how the early Church Fathers interpreted the life of Christ: a perspective of self-giving, of self-sacrifice in order to find union with God. It's necessarily a path, I think, because your first instinct is to think of yourself as the most important thing in your life, right? But, as I always say, I don't actually have faith. I search, but in the end I'm a modern man like the rest of us. I just want to try to experience faith, and sing and reflect on that.

Do you think the characters in your songs, with all their burden of contradictions and hopes, can be considered in some way witnesses to the possibility of living while trusting someone or something?

Yes, I think so. I think that's why I tell their stories; to see how it feels, to see how other people feel, to experience that feeling.

Thinking about the "life of the world to come" might sound comforting. Your songs, however, are driven by the need for this life to be experienced here and now, despite death and pain...

In English these are the last words of the Creed recited at the end of Mass: "I believe in the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come". In Latin it's simply vitam aeternam, but the English phrase is full of wonder and mystery for me.

Do you think it's possible to find positivity even in the scars of the past, as "Genesis 3:23" suggests?

I don't have a clear answer on that! Sometimes yes, other times I feel like trying to salvage something good from a sick past is just pointless. I keep thinking about this question!

In your songs you've often laid bare your most intimate memories. Is there any song you could never play live, or is it always in some way a cathartic experience for you?

Yes, there are a couple. I simply don't play them, and I usually don't even release them. There are plenty of songs that are private and meant to stay that way.

What does a song need to reach you on a deep level?

The main thing is good lyrics. Everything else is secondary. At the same time, though, this morning I mostly listened to instrumental rock and found a lot to appreciate in it, so it's hard to say. A great melody can cut just as deep as a good lyric. But how many great melody writers are out there? They're hard to find.

Do you ever feel the need to express yourself in a broader literary form than the song, like a novel?

Yes, I wrote one that was published in 2008 ("Master Of Reality", inspired by the Black Sabbath album of the same name, ed.), and I'm working on another.

Could you tell us something about your collaboration with another brilliant songwriter like John Vanderslice? Did you find common ground?

Oh yes, we worked together for years, but only recently did we make a record as an actual collaboration ("Moon Colony Bloodbath", released in 2009, ed.). We decided that the best way to record it was to bring in an outside producer and let him take charge, so we got Chris Stamey (of the dB's) to produce it. It was a pleasure!

Is there still room in today's music scene for a songwriter in the most classic sense of the term?

You know, I really can't think about that... Thinking too much about "scenes" and things like that, about classic songwriters versus modern ones or whatever, isn't something that works for me. I can only do what I do. If I spent my time thinking about scenes, I'd be putting my creative energy in the wrong places.

Your lyrics often contain references to horror films. What do you think a horror movie needs to be truly scary? If you were a screenwriter, what would the plot of your horror film be?

There has to be something senseless for a horror film to work, some point where logic simply stops operating. Beyond that, the most important element is atmosphere. Everything in a horror film is secondary to the atmosphere, which has to be constantly unsettling for the audience. I think that if I wrote one, I'd want to make a film like "La casa dalle finestre che ridono" (the Italian horror cult classic directed by Pupi Avati in 1976, ed.). A film that unfolds very slowly and is 100% atmosphere, with one bloody moment of revelation at the end.

In "Against Pollution", back in the days of "We Shall Be Healed", you sang: “When the last days come/ We shall see visions/ More vivid than sunsets/ Brighter than stars/ We will recognize each other/ And see ourselves for the first time/ The way we really are”. What will we see that day, looking at John Darnielle?

I don't know! I think if I knew that, I'd have the whole secret of life. Who really knows who they are? Only a sage, a great religious mystic could know that. That's the point. In theory, we can't see it until it's all over.

(17/01/2010)

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