Mayhem - Attila Csihar - Liturgy of Death

interview by Michele Savoldi

This is a long conversation with a legendary figure of extreme music: Attila Csihar, singer of Mayhem but also much more, as you'll read in the interview. For the first time, the eclectic Hungarian vocalist takes control of the lyrical side of an album by the historic black metal band, and the subject tackled is probably the most important question for any human being: death. "Liturgy Of Death" is an album that won't fail to surprise old and new Mayhem fans who, more than forty years after the band's founding, are still capable of delivering powerful emotions. Like the ones we'll experience on February 17th at Alcatraz in Milan, where Death Over Europe will take place, offering Italian fans - besides the Norwegians - performances by Marduk and Immolation as well.

So, dear Attila, what should fans expect from "Liturgy Of Death"? In my opinion, it's a more varied album than "Daemon", which, as Necrobutcher told me at the time, was probably influenced in its composition by the tour and recording of "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas".

Yes, I think it's a kind of derivation, so these two albums are somehow connected. Still, seven years passed between the two records, but it does seem - and it was never planned that way - that there's a connection, just as "Ordo Ad Chao" and "Esoteric Warfare" were connected. I think "Liturgy Of Death" is... I don't know if you mean "varied" in terms of the music or compared to the other records, but the whole theme running through the album is death. All the lyrics speak of it, I just try to approach it from different angles, from various aspects. Personally, I believe it's a deeper record than "Daemon", at least lyrically, and it's more philosophical. "Daemon" was a bit different, and actually Necro is right: when we recorded the "De Mysteriis" album, everyone was in the studio. When I recorded the vocals, all the members were watching me, so I asked for a curtain to close off the recording room and stay in the dark, so they couldn't see me. I also had some candles - I love candles, obviously, my whole house is full of them. In that sense, "Daemon" was meant to bring the band together, so I shared the lyrics with everyone and each of them could contribute, which is why the lyrics were more varied. This album, on the other hand, I wrote entirely by myself. I wanted to dig deeper into this theme, which came to me through my "channel", so to speak. I didn't plan it, I didn't have ten different ideas for a title to choose from - it simply culminated and manifested itself in me. All the songs are about this. Musically, it's an overview or an embrace of the entire recorded history of Mayhem: there are experimental parts, old stuff, newer stuff. It's interesting to see how people have different perspectives on the record.

I noticed a great deal of variety in the vocal work. How did you approach arranging the vocal parts?

It's true. Now I use my voice as if I were painting, I try to use whatever colour of my sound feels right for that particular part of the song or the music. I'm not trying to perform or put on a circus act – every choice has a meaning. I already started with "De Mysteriis", where the song "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" had that more operatic part, a priest's voice I was asked to do. "Ordo Ad Chao" already had a certain vocal diversity, there I use different techniques, but then I regretted it a bit with "Esoteric Warfare", where I didn't use much variation – it was more extreme vocals, screams. I missed it, and people inspired me, even in the band, our producer, everyone: "Why don't you use the whole spectrum of your voice?". I've been doing this since I was 15 – I was fifteen when I first got on stage with Tormentor, now I'm 55, so that's 40 years of using my voice, practising and developing it. This is also tied to the theme of the album: everything changes, everything passes, our body changes, perfection never exists, maybe it exists for a moment but then that changes too. So my voice, my body are changing, I have to constantly practise, keep myself in shape. Naturally, I've developed many different styles through the countless projects I've played in over the years – I can't even remember how many albums I've made, I have no idea. It's natural to use my voice in different ways, it comes spontaneously, I follow my instinct. I don't plan it, I don't decide "this song should have this, that one should have that" – it's just however it comes.

The theme of death dominates the lyrics, but it's not portrayed either positively or negatively – I'd say it's objective. Can you share your thoughts on this perspective?

Absolutely. This theme came to me through my channel, I didn't plan it. When I found it I thought: "Wow, this is a really heavy theme, very demanding, death!". It's also totally universal – we all have to face it. Look at every artist throughout history, how many poets, poems, literature, paintings, architecture, sculptures, mythology – not to mention religions, traditions and philosophy. When I started working on these lyrics, I was reading Seneca, the great Roman philosopher – he wrote extraordinary letters on this subject. I also read Epictetus, the Turkish philosopher, so I guess they influenced me. And if you look at the history of Mayhem, we've had people die within our family: obviously Euronymous and Dead. I thought: now I'm 55, maybe I'm old enough to tackle this theme, even though it's very demanding, profound. I try to shed light on different aspects. Yes, it's ugly, mainly for those who are left behind, for us it's a very sad thing, and it seems to make life meaningless – everything will pass anyway. But if you look at it from another perspective, it's the end of all suffering, the end of all confusion, the end of all our problems. And besides, I'm not sure there really is a beginning and an end. I was there when my children were born, when they were pulled out of the womb – by the way, every mother is sacred to me, as is every father. It was a dramatic, indescribable moment. Let's say it's beautiful when you're born or when you give birth, but look at the mother and the child, especially the mother – the tremendous pain they have to deal with to give life. That's why I adore all mothers. It's one of my main issues with all religions: when they say "father in heaven" – I mean, come on, the father had a mother! It should be mother, father, or a different word altogether. When I was present at the birth, I realised – and I'll never forget that moment – wait a second, this isn't just the beginning! That child was in the womb five minutes before birth, an hour before, a week, a month before. You go back to the foetus, to the sperm and the egg when they meet – life was already there. So where is the beginning? In esotericism we say the beginning is when you take your first breath, but from a scientific perspective it was already there, the child in the womb already feels, already perceives things. I don't remember being born, I don't remember the beginning. And when you look at the other end, death – which is our topic – some deaths are painful and miserable, but others aren't. Sometimes people fall asleep and never wake up, or they simply collapse. It's not always painful, whereas birth is always painful.

When does death occur? People used to think someone was dead when they collapsed, but today we talk about clinical death – there are a few minutes, at least five, after you've died in which you can still come back. I can't say exactly how long clinical death lasts, but I've read a lot and spoken with people who've had this near-death experience, and many times it's positive: "I was in the light, I was in the tunnel, I saw the sun", they say. Even my electrician told me about his experience – he got a powerful electric shock and it was as if he were flying into the sun, this four-dimensional tube. Actually, I had the same vision in one of my meditations: that the sun is something special, not just what we see, maybe it has other dimensions. Some say the other end of a black hole is a sun – that's theoretical science, I don't want to get too deep into it. But he was flying through the sun, and there was peace behind it, another dimension, another world, where he didn't even want to come back. Many people who have this near-death experience don't want to come back. And then, every day we fall asleep and wake up in the morning – if you think about it, what is that? For us it's natural, but if you came from another planet, or looked at it objectively, isn't it strange that every day we have to "fall" when the sun sets and then wake up? We go into another dimension, the one we call dreaming, but no one can really say what it is. You can call it mental activity, but what is it really? It's impossible to define the exact moment you fall asleep – you're just passing from one state to another. The same when you wake up – you still have the dream alive in some way, it's hard to define that exact moment. I think all these things suggest that maybe it's not necessarily the end. If you look at all traditions, especially in India or Egypt, everyone prepared for the next life, the next dimension. Even our religions, like Christianity, talk about an afterlife – heaven or hell – even though they make false bargains: "This will happen, that will happen, if you don't do what we tell you". I think that's wrong, because by that standard, practically everyone should go to hell! I really doubt that's how it works. It's very difficult, no one can say exactly what happens afterwards. I'm not a believer, but I feel close to esotericism, the occult and mysticism. Science is so limited... For example, I've got this thing here – I don't know if you can see it – it's like a bent spoon. It's stainless steel, an Ikea spoon. I have several of them here because I'm studying what's called psychotronics. I don't know if you can see it well, but it's about energy, you know... basically, my teacher can do it, I haven't managed it yet. I tried with this spoon here, but the result isn't that good yet. This is my attempt. It's a phenomenon linked to a type of energy that, according to official science, doesn't exist, simply because they can't measure it or reproduce it, but it's there nonetheless. So it falls into the realm of mysticism, the occult, secret or unknown things, and certainly esotericism. That's how I try to approach this. I hope you understood what I mean. Maybe my answer was a bit too long... sorry if I talk a bit too much, I'll try to be more concise.

No problem, it's very interesting. What kind of ritualistic sounds did you include at the end of "Sentence Of Absolution"?

Great question, brother! It's another experimental idea, that's why I say this album has experimental parts. We wanted to do something with one of the other ancient cults: voodoo, which originates from Africa and the Caribbean. I found a fantastic artist through my connections from France, called Natasha – a girl from Nigeria, a real African. I've never met her in person. I asked her who could do this, because we wanted something authentic, not something pulled off the internet, but a real person who knows voodoo. So it's basically a voodoo outro. I don't know where it will take us for the next album, but that's the meaning of voodoo – we go into this tribal voodoo state at the end of the record. This creates a frame, because the album's intro features Garm, one of my absolute favourite vocalists and a great friend. He made some background melodies in the intro. I wanted to create a frame for the record, so the outro is with Natasha doing the voodoo.

And what can you tell us about the incredible artwork by Daniele Valeriani?

It's incredible, I agree! It's fantastic. He also did the artwork for "Daemon". I really like it, his artwork is very distinctive. He came up with a few ideas, and in the end we all voted and chose: this was the right artwork for the record. It's a kind of ritual, it has that face, that presence. It has this ritualistic feel, there are hints, in a somewhat cryptic way, to the philosophies behind everything. Even the peacock feather is a reference to India. I didn't put too many allusions into the lyrics, but there's esoteric stuff in there.

What can you tell us about any news regarding Void Of Voices and your recent project with Iggor Cavalera?

Thanks for this question, I really appreciate it. I'm still doing Void Of Voices, of course – it's my lifelong project. I don't release much, but the last thing I made was the album "Baalbek", which I recorded in Baalbek, Lebanon, on top of a monolith. I love this ancient structure, I think it's pure mystery and it's evidence of another civilisation that existed on this planet. For me, it's not a belief system, I know it. I know there was a civilisation we know nothing about and it was a high-tech civilisation. In Baalbek there are the largest Roman ruins, one of the largest intact temples in the world – the temple of Bacchus and the temple of Jupiter with those pillars. The ancients really knew there was a precise meaning. Baalbek was the city of the sun, as I've heard, which is very interesting to me. And there are the largest monoliths in the world – 900 tonnes, like 1000 Volkswagen Golfs in a single piece! No one can lift them. Even today you'd need a giant machine. I made that record there and I'm still playing with Void Of Voices. I'm also working on "Nosferatu", another project with Void Of Voices: it's Murnau's silent film with Max Schreck, the old classic, and I'm doing the live soundtrack for it.

With Iggor it's another wonderful thing. We've known each other for a long time, he was kind of a hero of mine. I used to listen to Sepultura, we listened to each other's music even before we met. I parted ways with Sunn O))) recently and I really miss that era – experimental music. Iggor is really good with experimental electronics too. I don't mean a synthesizer in the classic sense: he's very good with his modular synths, and he's also an incredible drummer. But the most important thing is that we were completely on the same wavelength when we decided to give it a try – same mindset, same page. It's very ritualistic, experimental music. We should record an album and play more. By the way, we're with Swamp Booking, which is Italian, and I hope to play in Italy with this project one day.

There's another band, if we're talking about it – it's always been important to me, so I think it's interesting for you. Aborym, my old Rome-based outfit, was industrial black metal. And my old band Plasma Pool was released in Italy, and it was pure electro stuff. Now, following in those footsteps, it seems we'll be forming a new band with Rhys Fulber of Front Line Assembly. I'm excited about this one too. I just hope we'll have time, because there's another heavy tour underway again. But I feel liberated from Mayhem – this record kept me tied down, I couldn't do anything else. Now that we've released it, it's a relief, I can focus on this new stuff.

Speaking of Tormentor, do you plan to keep performing live or to go into the studio at some point?

At some point, yes. We're still playing live. The incredible thing about Tormentor is that it's been the same lineup since 1987 – the same people! It's my high school band. Tormentor was my first outfit, from '85-86 to '90. Now we're back together with the same people and playing together. We still love playing and everyone loves hearing the old stuff, obviously – we even influenced Mayhem, as you can read in the letters Euronymous sent me. They both loved Tormentor. We love playing live, but you know what? We also want to make a new album. We released "Recipe Ferrum" before, in 2000, a work that was still connected to Roman culture. Now it's been 25 years since that album, it's time to do something. But that was with a different lineup, at that time the old members weren't available. Now the original Tormentor project is back. I don't think there are many other bands out there still playing with the same lineup since the 1980s... We'll definitely keep playing live and we're working on new material. I was just at the guitarist's place yesterday and he was showing me some new riffs. We just need to figure out which direction to take – after all these years, we're still defining what to do and how to proceed. We've got a bunch of ideas and demos, so something's bound to happen at some point.

What final message would you like to send to your Italian fans ahead of the show scheduled in Milan on February 17th?

I'd like to send them a big greeting! I really love Italy, as I told you before – it's important to me and I can't wait to perform in Milan. We did a very special show in that city in the past, when we played the “Live In Leipzig” set. Italy is very important – the first time I ever stepped on stage was in Milan, with Mayhem in '98, when I was there with Aborym and we recorded the first album. I was just a guest in Aborym at the time, and I met the Mayhem guys for the first time during the “De Mysteriis” era. “Mediolanum Capta Est” was also released afterwards. So Italy is very important to me. I can only assure you it will be a great show. I think it will be similar to the 40th anniversary concert – we're trying to keep those elements, and we'll probably also keep the projections, which I think are unique in the field of black metal. Why not keep them? It'll be a great show and I feel a strong connection with Italy. So: greetings guys, stay pure, keep the flame of black metal alive, and come see our show if you can!

(February 1st, 2026)

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A fortieth-anniversary celebration

by Michele Savoldi

A unique event is approaching, one of no small historical significance for fans of Norway's most notorious and famous black metal band: the celebration of forty years of blasphemous existence by Mayhem. The show the band has decided to offer their followers for this unrepeatable occasion, scheduled for December 11th, 2024 at the Live Music Club in Trezzo sull'Adda (Milan), goes beyond the already thrilling standard live set from a band that has long been made up of members from different countries. Today we're talking with the English guitarist Charles Hedger, aka Ghul: for over ten years now, this virtuoso guitarist has enriched Mayhem's music with his ideas, having previously done the same for other giants such as Cradle Of Filth. So let's hand the floor to the burly Ghul, capable of fusing the punk attitude of true Norwegian black metal with the elaborate structures woven by the soundtrack genius known as John Williams!

So, dear Ghul, what should Italian fans expect from this celebration of Mayhem's 40 years of existence?

Well, it's very different from what we've done before. In the past, when we came over, it was generally for promotional purposes. For instance, the last couple of times, we were promoting the album and the EP we released afterwards. But this time it's a much longer show. It's about twice the length of our standard set, at least compared to the festival one. I think it runs around two hours or a bit more. So it's a considerably expanded show, with elements from every album in the band's history. It's kind of a celebration of our entire history. Alongside that there's obviously also a visual side, with footage and so on. So it's a very different kind of show. It's a bit more elaborate than people probably expect from us. But at the same time it's still a typical Mayhem show, just with a lot more added to it.

Can you share your thoughts on the songwriting and production process behind the Mayhem albums “Exoteric Warfare” and “Daemon”?

The “Exoteric” album was a bit of a chaotic mess because, obviously, we'd only been playing together as a band for a short time. So during that process everything was very rushed and thrown together as best we could. But by the time it came to the “Daemon” album, we'd been playing together for almost 10 years by that point… well, eight years. But we'd been touring for a long time, we'd also done the tour for “De Mysteriis”. And so that album had a much more… I wouldn't say relaxed, but more considered process, with the feeling of everyone being together, everyone involved. And I think you can sort of feel that in the album. It seems like a lot of love and care went into the material, and especially into the atmosphere. What usually happens is that either Teloch or I create a structure, a foundation for a song, and then we share it among ourselves and talk about it, then other people will say which ideas they like and which they don't, and so on. We gradually whittle it all down to a selection of songs that we've all agreed we need to work on, and then we narrow it further and arrive at the final version. That process seemed to work pretty well, and I think it's more or less what we'll keep using. We're starting to create something new at the moment and we're going through exactly the same process, so I hope it'll go as smoothly as last time.

Ok, so is there anything you can reveal in terms of studio recordings?

Coming up soon? Not really, but let's say the wheels are in motion. There's very little in terms of concrete ideas or dates or anything like that. We have a vague idea of how and when we want to do things, but I can't say more because obviously at the moment it's just a project, and I don't want to start revealing information I shouldn't reveal or that's simply inaccurate, since it could change.

What role do you think your musical studies and education play when it comes to composing music?

A huge role. Obviously every kind of music is different, and Mayhem's walks a very fine line. There's definitely a punk element in Mayhem, especially in the early stuff. But obviously when you listen to Blasphemer's work there's a huge amount of technicality behind it. I could definitely do this job without any training or knowledge or whatever I've accumulated over the years. It's not necessary, but I suppose it's the difference between being some kind of monkey at a typewriter who accidentally comes up with something good, versus having direct control over what you're doing. But that doesn't necessarily mean having all that knowledge and so on actually means you'll write something good. It just means you know what you're doing. The real creative spark and the soul of it all still comes from the same place. The only difference is that maybe the process is a bit faster, because when I have an idea I know 50 different ways I could use it and 50 different directions I could take it. So it's a bit less like rolling the dice, you know what I mean? It's a bit less random and a bit more controlled, as with all music. You should never let music theory or technicality take over. They should always come afterwards, or they should always be there as a backup, to help you control your instincts. But the soul of music-making should come from exactly the same place it came from when you were completely inexperienced, when you just felt it!

Is Imperial Vengeance still an active project, on the other hand? Can we expect anything in the future?

Well, no. I mean, it's funny you bring that up, because not long ago, by chance, I stumbled across some of the old stuff and thought that some of it was actually pretty good. And I spoke to Dave, who was also involved. It was sort of a two-man project and we've been... I don't know, we've been kicking around the possibility of trying to do something. We're not sure yet. Obviously time is the main issue, but there's definitely some excitement there. It's strange that you bring it up, because you're the fourth or fifth person who's asked me about that project in the last few months. It almost feels like the universe is sending me a sign, like I should reconsider it, you know? So maybe...

What can you tell us about Veile, the other project you're involved in?

Yeah, that's also a matter of time. We've done some really interesting stuff, I really enjoyed that project. So far we've done very little, but what little we've done I really loved, and it's a totally different "animal" musically. It's a lot more, I suppose, a bit more experimental and unconventional. Yeah, it's a bit unconventional and there's a lot more space. I mean, there are obvious influences in there, but the whole thing definitely takes some strange tangents. So it's also something I'd love to dig into more, if I had the time. We've got a few things in progress, but obviously I'll be off on tour now and then I'll be away again, I think, early next year. And then again! There's quite a lot planned between now and summer, so it'll be hard to squeeze all this material out. I've also got this synth project, R-Complex, for which I've started writing a new album. But that's something I could theoretically do while on tour, because it's all in the box, it's all on one workstation. So it's not the same as writing music for a band, it's a very, very different thing. It's easier to keep up with while on the move. But yeah, Veile, the Imperial Vengeance stuff: these are all things ticking away in the background that definitely deserve more attention. With the Veile project, honestly, we're still nowhere near the potential it could reach. There's so much we could do, it's just a matter of finding the time. And the drummer, Frank, is also extremely busy with other bands and other projects. So, it's hard being a musician because you're always busy!

Yes, especially if you devote yourself to your own projects, outside of the business side, let's say...

Yes, that's exactly it! When you rely on it for your income, you're walking a very dangerous road, because it's extremely important to always keep the desire to make music as the main reason for everything you do. And it's tough when you've got bills to pay and food to buy. You know what I mean? It's extremely difficult to walk that line and keep your integrity by staying focused on the art rather than the business. But you do need to have at least some business awareness, otherwise the art alone can't survive.

What are your fondest memories from your time in Cradle Of Filth?

We did a lot of stuff. I was only with them for about six years, but a lot happened, obviously, in that time. I went from nothing to being a professional touring musician, all within the space of about two weeks. So it was a massive change, a huge upheaval in my life. There were obviously a lot of negative aspects too. I'm sure you've talked to other people who've had dealings with that band at some point, so I imagine you know what I mean. You've probably heard plenty of stories about the kind of nonsense that goes on in that world. But there are also a lot of positive aspects. With Sarah, back when we were both in the band, we became really good friends, and she helped me stay sane, keeping me somewhat grounded the whole time. We're still friends, and now she's back doing things with Kovenant, which is fantastic. But yeah, I've got loads of great memories. The first time we played Download was a huge moment for me, because it was the kind of sacred place I'd grown up watching in all those Monsters of Rock videos, and those events always took place at the same site. And then it became Download, so playing there was genuinely one of my great sources of satisfaction from that period. We had a lot of fun. There were so many great moments on tour. There were plenty of interesting experiences, as you'd expect from touring, like big shows and festivals and so on. So I'd say my fondest memory of that band was really the difference between where I was when I left and where I was when we started. The whole process I went through with that band was a long journey of growth that I look back on with a lot of fondness.

Who are your favourite artists outside of metal?

Oh, most of what I listen to, to be honest, isn't metal! And it's not because I don't listen to metal. It's just that I listen to so much music... I mean, I listen to a lot of music that I wouldn't call "classical", because technically that's not accurate, but I listen to a lot of music from the late 1800s right up to today, orchestral music, what they call high art music. But I don't think I like that term...

You definitely can't call Shostakovich a classical composer...

Absolutely not! I love Shostakovich, Wagner, Penderecki, all of them. I'm a huge John Williams fan: he's the composer who got me hooked on music. The "Star Wars" soundtrack was what got me hooked on music and the reason I wanted to become a musician! And he's still by far my biggest influence today. But in terms of bands, I mean, I love the Stranglers, for instance, we talked about them earlier. I love Devil Doll, Italian or Slovenian or Slovak?

Slovenian...

Yes. I love them. Absolutely. Devil Doll are probably my favourite artist of all time, in terms of composition. What else? I mean, there's also a lot of electronic music in what I listen to, especially at the gym. I listen to loads of different kinds of music. I also like Madness and some of the other ska bands from that era. So yeah, it's a very broad and diverse range, because I simply love music, and I've always felt that it doesn't really matter how it's delivered. It's the content I'm listening to, so for me there's no difference between a metal album and a Wagner opera. It's about the tonal content. That's what I'm listening to, not the final product.

What final message would you send to Italian fans, inviting them to join you at Trezzo sull'Adda?

I'd say you have to be there if you're a Mayhem fan! Even if you've seen us ten times before, you have to be there because this is a unique, one-off event. I don't think we'll ever do anything like this again, or maybe we will, but not in this way, not through this journey into the band's history. So it's a one-of-a-kind opportunity and you definitely won't want to hear about it afterwards. You'll want to be there!

(December 9, 2024)

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The fathers of Norwegian black metal

I must admit that I approached this interview with a kind of "reverential fear" induced by the grim image that Mayhem have projected from their founding to this day. After all, we're talking about the band – in the metal world and beyond – that's perhaps the most extreme when it comes to bloody extra-musical events, comparable only to certain realities of American Gangsta Rap in the Nineties. Who would have thought I'd end up meeting someone as human and hilarious as Jørn "Necrobutcher" Stubberud? A piece of extreme metal history and a delightful conversation partner (with laughs over stories that will stay off the record of any interview!).

After a long evolution of your sound, "Daemon" is perhaps the album closest to the seminal "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" in terms of atmosphere. But with the added awareness and technical skill of the 2019 Mayhem. What do you think about that?

Well, there are people who've said the same things you just said, journalists who said the vibe is like "De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas" when you listen to the record. First of all, I have to say I don't hear it myself, but it is one of our best records, so I'm not disagreeing – I can offer a sort of explanation, maybe. And it's this: we were on tour playing that record for three years, and maybe the songwriters got a bit contaminated in their songwriting by all of that... maybe! I don't know, maybe. And the thing is, we were very technical and mathematical in building the songs: for you as a listener it's a kind of puzzle that we throw out, and if you don't solve it, you won't understand anything! If you do get something out of the puzzle, it's fun to find the older parts, but this time I think the fans have had enough of these riddles, mathematical formulas and madness... this time it wasn't about messing everything up, doing half-notes, dissonances: this time we did things properly, in a dark way, sometimes even with some groove. And by groovy I mean something like Depeche Mode, very depressing and heartbreaking, but done the Mayhem way, and since you mentioned "De Mysteriis", I'd say we won! All the journalists brought up memories of old albums, saying it resembled this one or that one: I take that as a compliment. Our fans are with us in their hearts, despite the deaths, the suicides and all the various bullshit... They're still with us, and we want to give them the best album we've ever made.

The bass is often a far too "hidden" instrument when we talk about heavy metal (especially black metal), despite the peculiar, dark sound the instrument can bring to the music. Are you satisfied with how your instrument was treated on "Daemon"?

Very much so! In your question you said the bass sometimes can't be heard, sometimes it gets lost in the mix... that's very easy to happen if you're not there and there are strong personalities like guitarists, drummers and singers – if you're not there, they'll push their own buttons. But this time we chose not to have any of them there, and to be independent with the engineers, working on all the instruments separately, as they are. When I listened back to everything, I was really happy: since you asked me this question, you know what I'm talking about... the fact that the bass had been lost for three records and now it's back.

There's also a small Italian presence on the record, the fantastic cover artwork by Daniele Valeriani. Why did you choose to work with him?

It's a long story: first of all because we love his art, obviously. When we first saw the cover, our reaction was to think the character was holding his own cock! At first I didn't notice it was a snake, and it gave me the vibe of old Celtic Frost... This thing with a snake that looks like a penis coiled around him... and his face: Hellhammer said it looks almost retarded, there's this mental retardation on his face! I think it fits perfectly with what it represents, it needed to be ugly in certain ways. It needed to look the way it looks, sitting on his throne playing with his snake. You can't give him Brad Pitt's face!

No, definitely not!

...we would have had to call someone else (laughs, ed.)! And I really appreciated the red drapes wrapped around the throne. It's something old, something very old. I don't even know if it's something satanic, I think it's something older. Something pagan.

Pagan, yes... pre-Christian...

Pre-Christian stuff, exactly. Which is perfect, because personally I don't believe in religion as it's understood by the masses. I believe religion is a form of control for the masses, that's the truth about religion: there's nothing else to it! They can build lots of statues, lots of churches, invent fake stories from 2,000 years ago, it's just folklore!

What memories do you have of Pelle (Dead)?

Dead was a good friend of mine. We were very young, and he had a very dark, black sense of humor that I shared, so we'd hunt down splatter movies, trade splatter films with people, talk a lot about songs, the stage show and things like that. When we were together in private, we mostly talked about Mayhem. It's such a huge shock when someone you love and care about – even while you're working together – takes their own life... For me it was an enormous shock: he had met Hellhammer and told him he'd bought a very sharp knife, but Hellhammer didn't think much of it. I, on the other hand, wasn't warned about anything, because he knew I would have done anything to stop something like that – if I'd known he'd bought a knife, if I'd known he was saying he wanted to kill himself and things like that, I would have done everything to prevent it. Someone who wants to kill themselves doesn't tell the people they know would be devastated by it, but they might tell someone who feels nothing for them.

Do you think Euronymous knew about it?

Yes.

And he didn't do anything to stop it?

No. I think he encouraged it, and that this was really bad karma for him, which is why he died two years later.

Have you seen the film "Lords Of Chaos"?

Yes, I've seen it!

What are your impressions of it?

First of all, the promotional push was incredible, I couldn't believe it: the Daily News, L.A. News, every kind of newspaper in the world, the biggest outlets, magazines... everyone was calling me constantly, day and night, because they wanted me to say something. I had already seen it, but I wanted them to see it too so they could ask me something meaningful, not just talk nonsense! I waited until the film came out. And then, nothing: nobody called me anymore! And I know why: this isn't a sensationalist film, it's a film that's hard to watch, one that breaks your heart: it's about kids who play in a band and end up killing each other. I remember Åkerlund telling me he wanted to make it as realistic as possible, so he went and looked up the police reports and found out how many stab wounds that guy got in the park and how many Øystein got, and where, and in what order, so he recreated that, and just knowing that was very painful for me. It was really hard for me to watch, since I know that reconstruction and I know some of those things... I don't think he (Varg, ed.) made himself a cup of cocoa in the middle of the murder.

Yes, yes... I think that's fake, just to shock the audience.

In a way it's fake, but on the other hand Varg Vikernes didn't drink alcohol or Coca-Cola. So if he really had drunk something, it would have been something like that. So it's not entirely false. Going back to the film, since they didn't have permission to interview Bård or Kristian, for obvious reasons they had to make it more theatrical. When I watched it I felt sad, I felt numb, like there was a void inside me. I didn't want to talk to anyone that night. And I think the journalists felt the same way, and wondered whether it was even appropriate to call Jørn to ask him questions once they'd seen the film. Once you've seen it, there aren't many questions left to ask.

I wanted to tell you that I watched your "What's In My Bag" YouTube episode, and I loved the fact that you - like me - love the Beastie Boys' "Paul's Boutique"... what a masterpiece!

What a masterpiece it is! I was introduced to the Beastie Boys by Kerry King and Rick Rubin...

Because Kerry King played on the track "No Sleep 'Till Brooklyn" on their first record?

Exactly, amazing, they'd put out some EPs and stuff like that, but the first real full-length was "No Sleep 'Till Brooklyn".

"Licensed To Ill"!

Yeah, "Licensed To Ill", my bad!

That was the single…

Of course I loved Slayer and when I saw the video I said: "Fuck, is that Kerry King?". Plus the solos were powerful, there's a great one in "No Sleep 'Till Brooklyn", I think those are the only two tracks that have them, right? "No Sleep 'Till Brooklyn" and…

"Fight For Your Right To Party", amazing!

"Fight For Your Right To Party", exactly. That's how I got introduced to the Beastie Boys! From then on I bought every record, then I followed Rick Rubin and his projects. I kept following the Beastie Boys, who at one point put out "The Mix-Up", for instance, completely instrumental: a New York rap band putting out a record with no vocals!

That was bizarre…

I loved putting it on for my friends when they came over, I recognized myself in all of it, I recognized myself in a lot of things that had to do with the Beastie Boys, there are parallels with Mayhem. They write from the heart, they write from wherever they happen to be, they pick their subjects from what's around them. It's the same for us as we progress, we pick subjects based on what's on our minds at the time, and when it comes time to put out a record, that's why it sounds the way it does. And that's why every Beastie Boys record sounds so different from the last.

Absolutely, they always experimented with something new, definitely…

Very different things, and it's the same with Mayhem! Not because we're weird bastards, but because it takes six or seven years to put out a record, same as with the Beastie Boys.

Yes, that's true.

I'm drawing a lot of parallels with the Beastie Boys. I just got the book, signed by Adam and Mike D, from my publisher since we share the same one. I put out a book a few years back, called "Death Archives", published by Thurston Moore…

Yes, Thurston Moore from Sonic Youth? He played at our Festa (Radio Onda D'Urto's festival, ed.) last year.

Really? Cool! He's a wonderful person who's opened a lot of doors for me in various musical worlds. I was even invited to Yoko Ono's birthday party (laughs, ed.), but I was sick that day!

We're now expecting you in November here in Milan. What message or invitation would you send to fans to join you for your show?

First of all: I always love coming to Italy to play. For the weather, for the food, for the grappa… everything! I love Italy! We've got great fans there, whom I really appreciate, and every time we get the chance to come, we show up.

What final message and greeting would you send to Mayhem's Italian fans?

If I had the chance, and if it were still there, I'd like to go eat my favorite pancakes in the whole world near the Duomo. The place is very close to the church, on the same street, but we'll do that next time we come back. Because it's a sin to come to Italy and not play in Rome or Naples or Florence.

Which Italian bands do you know?

Italian bands? First of all, Bulldozer! And of course I know Schizo, Necrodeath. Naturally I still have all the demos these guys gave us when we started touring Italy: back then people would come to our shows and give us demos, which I still keep, I've never thrown anything away. I still have my red Schizo t-shirt that the drummer gave me in Sicily many years ago... he was screwing my girlfriend, that bastard (laughs, ed.)!

...and you got a t-shirt out of it!

He was screwing my girlfriend and all I got was a cheap little t-shirt (laughs, ed.)!

That wasn't a fair trade...

No, it wasn't a fair trade... a terrible trade (laughs, ed.)!

N.B. The questions put to Necrobutcher were developed in collaboration with Mortifero of the Black Metal Nott and Nebrus projects.

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This article is an English translation of the original Italian text by Michele Savoldi, published on OndaRock.it. It was translated with the help of artificial intelligence, under the editorial responsibility of OndaRock's editor-in-chief, Claudio Fabretti.

Read the original in Italian · About the English edition

Mayhem on OndaRock

Discography

ALBUM
De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas (Deathlike Silence, 1994)
Grand Declaration Of War (Season Of Mist, Necropolis, 2000)
Chimera (Season Of Mist, 2004)
Ordo Ad Chao (Season Of Mist, 2007)
Esoteric Warfare (Season Of Mist, 2014)
Daemon (Century Media, 2019)
EPS AND SINGLES
Deathcrush (Posercorpse, 1987)
Freezing Moon (Black Metal Records, 1996)
Wolf's Lair Abyss (Misanthropy Records, 1997)
LIVE
Live In Leipzig (Obscure Plasma, 1993)
Mediolanum Capta Est (Avantgarde Music, 1999)
European Legions (Season Of Mist, 2001)
De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas Alive (self-released, 2016)
DEMOS AND BOOTLEGS (selection)
Pure Fucking Armageddon (Self Released, 1986)
The Dawn Of The Black Hearts (Warmaster Records, 1995)
Out From The Dark (Black Metal Records, 1996)