John Grant - Tales About The Queen Of Ghosts

by Francesco Amoroso

Despite the restless (and unsettling) gaze in some of his photographs, a true gentleman from another era.

In every interview you've given, your personal story has always been at least as prominent as your music and your album. Are you okay with that? How does it make you feel?

It's clear I'd always rather talk about music, but it seems inevitable that the conversation ends up being about me and my story, given how personal my music is and how the subjects I deal with are drawn from my own life experiences. I doubt you could talk about this album while keeping it completely separate from my personal story. It's something I understand and accept, and anyway, I really have nothing to hide.

Let's try to talk more about your music then, since so much is already known about your personal story. Maybe we could start with your "musical" history. Why do you think, for instance, that Czars never managed to achieve the success they probably deserved?

Basically, I think the timing just wasn't right for any of us. It wasn't the band I was meant to be in. Maybe we should have broken up after just one album, because big ego problems showed up almost immediately. I wanted to be in charge and made no secret of it, but no one else was willing to be led, and my own personal problems certainly didn't help create the right atmosphere within the band.

What we lacked, above all, were the right reasons for being in a band: we just wanted success, we weren't in a band to make music with friends, but to try to break into the music business.

Still, you did write some remarkable albums and quite a few memorable songs. Do you agree? And which ones do you prefer?

I think the band's last album, "Goodbye", is the most accomplished one, the one where the blend of our different, clashing personalities worked best. As for songs, there are plenty I still love and that I keep playing live, but I won't hesitate to name one: "Paint The Moon". I'm still very attached to that song and I play it almost every night on my current tour too.

Do you think you would have been able to write songs like the ones on "Queen Of Denmark" if you had stayed with Czars?

I'd say definitely not. There was no room in the band for me to explore my inner world. I wasn't accepted for who I was, I was in constant conflict, and it's not easy to come to terms with yourself when you constantly have to deal with conflict with others. That's exactly what Midlake did for me: they gave me the chance to be completely myself, without ever feeling judged. Only that way was I able to express myself at my best and truly bring out everything I had inside.

After the experience with Czars and the definitive split, you almost gave up music altogether. What did Midlake give you to help you rediscover your enthusiasm, and how did you meet?

As I told you, the most extraordinary thing they did for me was accept me for who I am, without ever trying to judge me and, above all, without ever giving me the impression that they were there to help out some poor "loser", some sick person in need of help and pity. At the time I was trying to build a life for myself in New York, once again. And I didn't feel too great about myself. So it wasn't exactly easy to accept the challenge of moving for a while to a small town in Texas to try to record an album that, for the most part, I hadn't even written yet. Let's just say I was about to turn forty back then and I was starting to see myself as a bit of a failure, for not having a life of my own, a partner, a house, a car, and for not having achieved any of my goals. But I was truly struck by the band's straightforwardness: all they asked of me was to go to Texas and record an album with them. And that was only because we knew each other and they valued me as an artist.

We've known each other for years, since both Czars and Midlake recorded for Bella Union — actually, we were there from the very start, and they came along much later (and found success much sooner!).

But whose idea was the sound of "Queen Of Denmark"? Did they influence you? Was that very Seventies sound your own choice, or did it come from a suggestion of theirs?

I'll take credit for the idea behind the album's overall sound. I wanted to make an album that sounded like Carpenters! I'd always wanted to write songs with that particular vibe, but I don't think I was really capable of it on my own. Instead, Midlake brought out all the Seventies influences in my music. That's exactly what I wanted, and Midlake were truly the perfect band for it. Above all, they have the technical skill to get a song to sound exactly the way they want. I know nothing about amplifiers, recording, tubes, while they knew everything. So all I had to do was ask, and they'd manage to get the sound I wanted. They were completely willing to help, and even when things didn't seem to be going right after the first attempts, they patiently and calmly got to work until the record sounded the way we wanted it to.

In the record, though, there aren't just obvious references to the Seventies - the Eighties are also heavily referenced, particularly in the use of synths. No one does synth solos anymore like the ones we hear on "Caramel" or "It's Easier". After all, you use a lot of synths live too.

That's very true. I wasn't just influenced by Seventies bands like Bread, Journey, or Supertramp (not to mention ABBA) - I also loved and listened to a ton of bands that made excessive use of synthesizers in the Eighties. I could name you endless examples: from the obvious New Order to Visage, from Yazoo to Blancmange and Alien Sex Fiend. I loved the early work of Eurythmics: "In The Garden", "Sweet Dreams", "Touch" were important to me and I still love them. But also bands like Depeche Mode, Ultravox, Bronski Beat... I adored Bronski Beat. All this music was important to me and, in some way, I even tried to pay tribute to it... even though nobody agreed with me on those synth solos. They're not fashionable, but that was exactly what I wanted.

How and when did you discover you could sing, and is there a singer who particularly influenced you?

I started singing very early on, in the church choir. It came very naturally to me, but I wasn't considered the best by any means. Still, I kept doing it, and the positive response from people when I sang pushed me to keep going.

I don't think my singing style is particularly influenced by anyone, because I sing however it comes to me. It's what I'm able to do, and I don't try to force myself into doing something different. When I try to push it a bit, maybe screaming or going for a more shouted, punk-adjacent vocal, it feels less like me, less genuine.

I have to say, though, that if I had to name some influences, I'd definitely have to mention some female singers: Kate Bush above all. "Hounds Of Love" was an unforgettable experience for me. But the way Liz Fraser of Cocteau Twins sings, or Lisa Gerrard of Dead Can Dance, has always fascinated me too. In fact I could even consider Brendan Perry (also of Dead Can Dance, ed.) an influence in some way. And, even though our approaches are quite different, I'd mention Frank Black of the Pixies: to me he's a genius in vocal expression too, he has a unique, inimitable style, but if I had to pick one thing, I'd love to be able to use that register as well.

We've talked about the music and your vocal style. What about your lyrics, though? They're so personal, and at times raw, yet they manage to be ironic, sharp, deep. It almost feels like a more English way of writing than that of an American songwriter.

I'll take that as a compliment. Actually, though, if I had to name one influence, I'd definitely say Mark Eitzel (of American Music Club, ed.): he taught me that lyrics exist to get out everything you have inside. You don't always have to try to write catchy lines, or write your masterpiece every single time. In fact, you can, and you should, also write a load of garbage, because it's out of that stuff that your masterpiece might eventually come. I think the way he writes lyrics - always personal, often romantic or tragic, but never giving up on irony - really helped me find my own voice.

In fact, in your lyrics you can often find references to a distinctly pop imagery, like mentions of monsters and aliens. Are these in some way metaphors you use to express something more personal?

What can I tell you? Monsters, aliens, science fiction in general have always been hugely important to me. For a while I used to fantasize that the people I was dealing with were actually monsters, and that, as a result, maybe sooner or later I'd be able to return to normality and finally get rid of these troublesome presences. So I'd say it was fairly natural for me to use this kind of imagery in my lyrics.

Old horror movies are also part of my imagination: films like "Rosemary's Baby" or the "Alien" movies themselves, but also Francis Ford Coppola's "Dracula" - even though not everyone liked it, to me it was an extraordinary film. I don't think there are films like that anymore that manage to have such a big appeal on people. Nowadays it's all reduced to gruesome, disgusting stuff. But back then, that kind of film was really deep in people's collective imagination. So it's easy and natural for me to use certain "images" like that in my lyrics.

A lot of people think I'm more influenced by Europe than America, maybe because I've lived in Europe for so many years, but deep down I'm still a guy who grew up between Michigan and Colorado, and my culture is deeply steeped in a whole set of typically American pop icons.

Is that the reason you mention names like Sigourney Weaver or Winona Ryder? Why did you want to include them in one of your songs?

I mention them because they're really part of my culture and my life. Sigourney Weaver, for instance, I've always loved her, I adored her character in "Alien" and I wanted to mention her almost as a tribute. I talk about the things that, one way or another, inspire me. I just wonder if she's ever heard the song and what she thinks of it.

Maybe now that your record has received a nomination for the Mojo Awards, it'll be easier for her to hear it...

I don't know, I hope so.

As for Winona Ryder (and Keanu Reeves, though I won't mention him!), it all comes from the fact that their attempt to imitate an English accent in the film "Dracula" was pretty ridiculous and poorly done, and I've always had a tendency to speak in a rather affected way. I also wanted to imitate the British accent, though I'm not sure it ever really worked. So I mentioned them because, in some way, they were talking about me too.

Speaking of the Mojo nominations, we actually found out today that you got three: for best album, with "Queen Of Denmark", for best song with "I Wanna Go To Marz", and for best live performance (this last one turned into a "MOJO Best Live Act Award", ed.). How does it feel to start collecting all these accolades?

First of all, I want to tell you that the song has always just been called "Marz". Most people keep calling it "I Wanna Go To Marz", but the title is simply "Marz". That said, I have to tell you it feels really good, truly! It's a genuinely nice feeling. Obviously I'm trying not to put too much weight on these things, because I know there are so many bands out there who deserve it, so many good singers, and I know it could all pass soon enough. I'm also trying not to overthink things: I know my music is reaching a lot of people, and that makes me happy, so why should I ruin this moment for myself?

I read that at first you weren't really able to enjoy the success and the praise you received for "Queen Of Denmark", because you were going through a difficult time in your life and weren't in the right mood for it. Have things changed a bit now, then?

I'd say so. I'm starting to get my life working, in a way. I'm trying to enjoy it a bit more. There are still plenty of unresolved issues, plenty of difficult things to face, I still worry too much about the future and dwell too much on the past, but even so I'm trying to enjoy the moment. I'm getting a little better at it, I hope.

In one interview you said things kept not working out for you because you kept wanting to be cool, "you still wanted to be MGMT", because the kid inside you still wanted to be accepted by the coolest kids in school…

Yes, deep down part of me would still like to be in one of those bands everyone talks about, always riding the wave and loved by the coolest kids, like MGMT or Cut Copy, and I know that's never going to happen to me. But at the same time, I think I've reached a point in my life where I don't really want to be anything other than myself. I'm over forty now, and maybe I've learned to accept what I see every day when I look in the mirror. Always seeing the same me has helped me accept myself and stop wanting to be something I'm not.

In the end, do you think your debut album could be considered more of a dark, somewhat sad record, or do you see the final result as full of hope?

I'd say without a doubt that it's an album that's somehow "uplifting". It certainly has its dark, gloomy moments, but it seems to me there's always that dose of irony that balances things out a bit.

During this period of touring and promotion, have you managed to write any new songs? And do you think you'll record them again with the same people?

Yes, I've written a lot, really, and I hope to be able to start working on my second album soon. I'd like it to be different from the last one: I don't want people to get bored of me. Either way, I really hope I can work with Midlake again. It's a matter of scheduling. We've planned to start recording in January, since I still have a lot of shows to play between now and the end of the year. We'll see if we manage to clear our respective schedules for that period and get back there to Texas to record, especially since Midlake are about to finish their new album and, right after that, they'll obviously have to start a new tour. We'll see if we can figure out when it'll be possible to work together.

One last question: what's your relationship with the audience and the fans like? Do you enjoy playing live?

I love it. I love playing in front of a crowd.

But what I really appreciate most is talking to people after the shows, seeing so many new faces, looking them in the eye, seeing their smiles, exchanging opinions, hearing what they think of your music, meeting new people from so many different places. When you're on stage you end up shutting yourself off in a world of your own, a dimension all your own. So, at the end of every show, it's a bit like coming back down into reality, and sometimes it's really exciting.

John Grant's ten favorite songs (courtesy of Fiore):

1. Abba – SOS

2. Yello – Sometimes

3. Icehouse – Icehouse

4. Kate Bush – Night Of The Swallow

5. Eurythmics – No Fear, No Hate, No Pain (No Broken Heart)

6. Missing Persons – Noticeable Ones

7. Dead Can Dance – De Profundis

8. Cocteau Twins – Beatrix

9. Sinead O’Connor – Success Has Made A Failure Of Our Home

10. Journey – Something To Hide

(18/09/2011)