Mark Eitzel - American Music Club - With a body full of knives and snakes

WITH A BODY FULL OF KNIVES AND SNAKES

by Simone Secci

I meet Mark Eitzel in Rome, the day after the release of the new American Music Club album, titled "The Golden Age". Mark is nothing like what one might expect from the descriptions we'd been given: jovial and highly self-deprecating, he bears no resemblance to the sad, downcast figure the press usually paints him as. This is an excerpt from the conversation we had during the soundcheck before the show, starting with his relationship with the press and other musicians, and moving on to the Heath Ledger tragedy and the theme of death in general.

How many times have you played in Rome?

This is the second time.

And when was the first?

The first time was at this "American Bar" (someone will tell me later it was called Jailbreak, ed.), where I think they usually had blues concerts, right in the middle of nowhere. There were about 25 people there.

Do you remember how long ago that was?

It must have been about 4 or 5 years ago.

Was it for your solo project or did you bring the band along?

Honestly, I have no idea! (laughs)

I read an interview a while back that Dave Eggers (the well-known American writer, ed.) did with you — he's famous for not exactly being "nice" to the people he interviews…

He was very kind to me…

Really?

Yes

I didn't find it particularly original of him to keep pointing out that you write sad songs…

Yeah, he does that kind of thing.

He called your album "West" "bleak."

He's probably never even listened to it! (laughs). Years ago he wrote a review of "Love Songs For Patriots" for Rolling Stone, where he said, "I have the record. I just never listen to it." So I guess he doesn't listen to records anymore.

Maybe he shouldn't write about music anymore, then.

Does he still write about music? Honestly, I wouldn't know…

Neither would I, to tell you the truth. I think he's famous enough not to have to.

Yes, he's a fairly famous writer.

Your music gives me more of a feeling of warmth…

The idea is that…

I can't quite hear this sadness that some people find in it. Maybe because I don't focus on the lyrics.

Neither do I. Maybe it's because I don't have a chin, that people think I'm depressed. People are cruel to those who suffer for not having a chin. I'm joking… (laughs) Yes, unfortunately that's what they say, but soon I'll be old and they won't say I'm sad anymore, they'll just say I'm old! (laughs).

I think music is more something that gives you the feeling of coming out of a state of depression, that helps you get out of it.

I remember once going to see the Pretenders and on stage they're this very aggressive rock band and the whole crowd is there headbanging, and I'm usually the one at the back covering my face, saying "I hate this stuff." It's a kind of fascist propaganda, I hate fascists, I hate uniforms. That's the second part of the answer. I once saw a documentary about some metal bands, and there was a segment on that metal band with the gay singer, what are they called…

Judas Priest.

Exactly! Then there was an interview, these two kids had listened to this track so many times that they became obsessed with it and convinced themselves to commit suicide…

Yes, I remember that case.

It's terrible to watch, there's this guy who no longer has a jaw… So when the singer of Judas Priest is summoned to court, he starts off with "I don't know which song you're talking about, I really don't remember it, I don't remember why I wrote it." And that's when I thought, this whole thing is depressing. This man's laziness and indifference toward his own music. It's because of his mediocrity that these kids shot themselves, the mediocrity of a man who doesn't give a damn about anything, he's just trying to do metal. Slayer, Motorhead, early Metallica, that's great metal! Because it's not indifferent.

You once said that you try to be as honest as possible in what you sing, without putting irony or cynicism into it.

Do I? Honestly I don't really know what I do anymore, I don't play guitar anymore now, I just sing. We played a great show at… let's see, we were in Florence first and that was terrible, the singer should have been shot. Then we were in Milan, that was a great show, and I don't know why, I don't know what was different about them, I don't know if there was irony or not. I just sing.

And how do you find yourself in this role as a singer?

Ah, it's fantastic! I don't have to think about the guitar the whole time, because I'm terrible at doing both things together.

I read that you think you're a terrible sound engineer…

Well, yeah, sometimes I don't see the point of it, sometimes it's better to just capture things as they are, live.

It was more about your relationship with the sound engineer, once you go into the studio with song demos…

It depends who you're dealing with. Sometimes it's complicated. By now I have a pretty clear idea of what I want. It's hard when there's no money. We probably won't use a studio to record the next album, we'll try to record it ourselves at home, maybe hiring a good sound engineer for a couple of days to do the drums. Maybe a better record will come out of it, who knows. Anyway, I was the one behind Pro Tools on the last few records.

Forget I said anything…

I really have changed with age.

I think that in general, if you don't have control over the mixing of the record and things like that, there's a greater chance your music will be taken in a direction you don't want to go.

Absolutely. My biggest mistake in the past was not asserting myself, not being clear. Now I do.

Because then you risk not recognizing yourself at all in what you've recorded.

On the old American Music Club records, our old drummer was the sound engineer. It has to be said we probably would never have made a record if it weren't for him, because he had the studio. But every idea I had, he didn't like, and I'd tell him "but I wrote the song", and he'd go "so what? Screw you". That's roughly how things went.

But did he know what he was doing?

More or less. I'm talking about the early American Music Club records, for which he had this classic, timeless sound in mind. To me, though, the result sounds a bit too '80s, too reverb-heavy, which is fine too. This is the first tour where we've gone back to playing the old songs, and we've got this amazing guitarist who can actually play them, because I really can't (laughs).

Over more than twenty years of career, you've gone through several different phases and genres of music. What kind of things would you really not do again?

Definitely some fairly bland country-pop songs I wrote in the past.

Which songs are you referring to specifically?

“California” has a few, and maybe “Engine” too — even on the latest album there's a somewhat predictable country track.

“San Francisco”?

Yeah, there are some on “San Francisco” too. It's just that I wrote that album with that lightness in my heart, influenced by Los Angeles and the people I had around me, but I haven't felt that way in quite a while.

Would you agree that there are some new things in the writing on the latest album, some new elements — I'm thinking especially of a track like "It's Not Really You".

That one sounds a bit country-western, actually it sounds a bit Mexican, because that's what you hear on the street in Los Angeles. Right now I'm working on some songs that will end up on an EP for a solo project of mine. I'm writing a piece about this show called “Jeopardy”: I'm on it naked, and the other two contestants are Steve Albini and Thurston Moore, and obviously I lose. I'm writing a song about a drag queen, a pirate, a virgin, and I wrote a piece for Heath Ledger. Because we knew each other a little. And it's all coming together really well, it's somewhere between funny and pretty bleak.

A bit like life.

Yes, exactly, that's it! So I can't wait to get home and keep working on it.

What can you tell us about the material you recorded with Peter Buck after the release of “West”?

There are about ten tracks we worked on that we never released. Maybe if he answered my emails... Anyway, I really like working with Peter.

Do you have other projects?

The new American Music Club album. There's this track called “Bad Liquor” that works really well live. I want to make an album of songs like that.

How do you know they'll work live?

I have no idea. My problem is that I'm too emotional. You see these musicians who do their show and then get off stage and just switch off, that doesn't work for me at all. It's like I have my body full of knives and snakes every single moment. So the slow songs don't get played live, and the noisier ones are the ones we usually play. That's the kind of songs I want to play in the future.

There are a couple on the new album too...

Yeah, but they're too soul.

I really like how at a certain point they explode into feedback…

Me too. I love the combination of the two elements.

What kind of music are you listening to these days?

All sorts of things, electronic music… I'm a big fan. I make some too, I have a myspace under a secret name.

Do you want to reveal it to us?

Oh no! I got too much negative feedback from American Music Club fans, who apparently hate electronic music. What am I listening to? I don't know… I really like Pink, she's my favorite pop artist. I like Telepop Musik and “Breath”, that really famous track (I think he's referring to the hit by Midge Ure, ed.). I saw My Brightest Diamond at a festival and she was exceptional, incredible. I love Bon Iver, I think he's a genius. But I haven't heard any recent electronic music band that's really exciting.

Lucky Dragons?

You're the fifth person to mention them! And I saw them live in March too!

The last question has a somewhat dark theme. As you get older, the people around you start dying, and that's a kind of thought I find in your songs.

Yes, what you're saying is very true. There was this woman I was with for seven and a half years… I mean, I'm gay, but we were together for years… Then she died and that definitely changed my life. Then five friends of mine from San Francisco died of Aids. It's strange how, little by little, everyone around you starts dying…

And as you get older, do you manage to live with it?

You know, when you're young and it's never happened to you before, everything feels truly tragic, but then somehow you come to terms with it, the pain is the same, but there's a kind of sense of resignation.

One very last question (suggested by my wife). How did you know Heath Ledger?

He and my ex-partner shared an apartment, and when I went to visit him, Heath was there playing with his girlfriend's dog. He was a very sweet man, a great artist. His death was terrible, he still had so much to give.

Thank you, Mark.

Thank you.

Special thanks to our friends at Init for making this interview possible.

***

THE DIY SONGWRITER

by Magda Di Genova and Marco Bercella

As a woman, spending hours in front of the mirror before deciding what to wear is the most natural thing in the world.

Outfit chosen for meeting Mark Eitzel: the dress that makes my ass look best.

You know, I'm really glad to meet you because I've had this question I've wanted to ask you for over ten years now: why did Godzilla think his name was in the Book of Life? (A song by American Music Club, his band, is called "What Godzilla Said To God When His Name Wasn't Found In The Book Of Life")

See, you have to understand that those films are beautiful. Godzilla breathes fire, he doesn't talk. Godzilla is a good animal, he's on the side of reason, but he's got a terrible temper.

So I thought: what would Godzilla say if his name wasn't found in the Book of Life? He'd breathe fire on God.

I was convinced he thought his name was "God" and "Zilla" was some kind of surname, and that discovering he wasn't God had left him rather annoyed.

Oh, that could well be.

Godzilla deserves to be in the goddamn Book of Life. I'm sorry, and Godzilla knows it, and God knows it too. It's completely unfair!

You recorded your previous work, "The Invisible Man", entirely on your own. Was that the first time you'd done everything yourself?

Yes. I'd recorded the album twice before, with two different bands in two different studios, and I'd spent all my money.

The first person I worked with was supposed to do it for free, no strings attached, but as we got close to the first of January, I ended up owing him money. Then he used his wife's credit card for some bullshit and spent a month kicked out of the house, had to redo all the floors, and that kept him busy for three weeks, so I went to see him and told him I wanted to move forward and could only do that if he gave me the recordings. He told me: "No, you have to pay me if you respect me. If you have any respect for me, I need at least two hundred dollars an hour." I already had three songs ready and those are the ones he handed over. Later on he helped me out because I gave him a ton of money, but it was all a mess. At that point I was so fed up that I bought myself a computer and recorded everything on my own.

Is that how you got into computers, then?

Exactly. I didn't want to, but the result was good. It's stupid to pay people for something so simple.

What about "Candy Ass", did you work alone on that record too?

Yes. Now I spend a lot of hours making music on the computer.

I'm obviously very curious about the title.

"Candy Ass"... Oh, it's a sort of nickname given to "queens" in America.

Then I was mixing in London with this guy who was obsessed with drum'n'bass and heavy metal, you know...

Forgive me, but how did you choose to work...

I didn't choose it: the record label wanted me to hurry up, so I did everything in a rush. Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed with how the record sounds. In my opinion, the demos sounded much better.

How did you want "Candy Ass" to turn out?

I don't know. I tried to make a sweet record. I didn't want a difficult record. I tried to make a record you can listen to if you're sick or out of it on drugs. I tried to make a record that was very simple both musically and lyrically, and it came out strange enough that it could be used as background music or brought to the foreground.

Yes, exactly! I listen to a lot of music with headphones: while walking, on the train, at the airport... that's why this record turned out the way it did: a good chunk of what I listen to is in the background.

I tend to avoid asking questions about lyrics, but on this record there are some recurring, well-drawn figures: cowards and ghosts.

I'm a coward. You should see me during a fight: I immediately start crying (we laugh) and… my life is full of ghosts, so I wrote this album about them.

Do you see ghosts as negative presences or…

No, no! … No! Human beings are good and evil.

We have this horrible problem: we think and we're afraid and we feel things and we reject them. We are shadows.

I love Italy and Spain, with these windows and the shutters that come down. I like that a lot, I love dark rooms. I adore sleeping during the day, but it's interesting how many shadows are inside us nowadays. That's how we're made, that's how we live.

"The Ugly American". How did you come up with the idea of rearranging your songs with a Balkan brass band?

It wasn't my idea: it was a friend of mine, Theodore. He's Greek and lives in London, it was his idea. I only agreed because that way I'd get a free trip to Greece (we laugh)

Was it a difficult record to make?

I don't know. My problem is that I don't plan out my career: I don't think in terms of "smart moves" and "bad moves". As far as I'm concerned, that album was, for my career, a "bad move", because I'd just released a covers record ("The Invisible Man", ed.) and everyone started asking me: "You can't write songs anymore, is that it?" It was really stupid, I thought: "I write tons of songs and people think I can't do it." The fans especially, they just hated it.

I like those records, I like "The Ugly American", I think it's a really good record and it sounds fantastic. My band, American Music Club, hates it.

You mentioned American Music Club, I imagine you don't mind if I ask you a few questions about the band.

Not at all.

American Music Club were very important for the American alternative scene…

So people say.

You don't agree?

I hear everyone say, from Coldplay to Radiohead, that they've been influenced by you…

(Mark is staring at me and I realize I've got a worried look on my face) Do you really like … Coldplay?!!

I love Coldplay. Chris Martin… is quite something to look at… and I like his voice too. I think they're very good. I've got friends who think I'm crazy, but I like Coldplay's records. Don't you?

Not at all, and I think they're massively overrated.

We're talking about pop music here: everything's overrated!

Anyway, we were talking about American Music Club. After more than twenty years, what's left of the American alternative scene?

Nothing. I like the fact that rock bands have started making people dance again. Just like I like the fact that young people want to dance to a rock song. It's exciting because that's how it should be.

I think indie-rock died the exact moment people started dancing again. I think that partly because I'm old enough to remember: I'm an old punk and I used to try to get people dancing. Well, it wasn't really "dancing," it was more like shoving people around and throwing them elsewhere, but it was like dancing.

So nothing's really left of the legacy left behind by bands like AMC, Pixies, Dinosaur Jr…

Nothing.

Pixies were fantastic.

I don't know what's left.

Right now singer-songwriting, as an art form, is shifting toward poetry, and maybe that's not even necessary, because I think people nowadays just keep music on in the background…

…So there's really nothing left?! That's terrible! (hoping he won't punch me)

There were thirty years when songwriters ruled the world and a single song could rule the world. Those days are over.

People have started to become desperate about our future, and now they're going through a phase of just rejecting everything. Every time you remind them to think, they answer with a "fuck off." The only thing they want to do is "spend," and they think that's something they can keep doing forever, which is a lie... I'm a middle-aged man, we could go on like this forever.

Ok. Let's change the subject.

Word has it that American Music Club are working on a new album together.

He nods, sipping some wine.

So it's true?!!

He nods again.

Wooow!

Why?

What do you mean, why? Because I like American Music Club!

Oh, well, thank you.

So far we've recorded five songs. It'll come out next year.

What was the reunion two years ago like?

It was fun, but it's always really hard. Things are starting all over again and we're too old, so it all feels pretty funny to us.

Our guitarist (Vudi. The other members: Dan Pearson on bass, Brad Johnson on the other guitar, and Matt Norelli on drums), who's an important member of the band, drives a bus in Los Angeles, loves his job, and gets health insurance from it. You know, he's 52, and having his health insurance paid for is really important to him, so he can't go off on tour.

We had to cancel some shows because his boss wouldn't give him the time off. We were supposed to play the Primavera Festival in Spain, we were begging him. We'd already booked the flights and the hotel rooms, we'd already spent all that money on Vudi, and he cancelled everything. In the end we did play Primavera plus two other shows, and that was it.

It's hard for American Music Club to go on tour. I used to make money on my own, and now I find myself paying myself. With American Music Club, I lose money.

Oh… Let's go back to you…

Yeah, to meee (smiles)

You're an eclectic composer, your records are all different from one another. Doesn't it ever worry you that changing so quickly might be a problem for your audience?

Yes! Obviously! But I don't care. I find my audience is more "sharp" than a lot of other people.

If I were in the audience and someone played a country track and then right after something strange, like an electronic track, I'd be happy about it because that's what I like.

I don't care and I don't think it matters. I understand your point of view and I'll try to be more consistent.

What makes you change so quickly?

I don't know! I don't change at all! Music is like water: it's whatever you want it to be.

Actually, I keep writing the same song over and over.

Really? So how do you know when a song is finished, when it's perfect?

Well… When it's perfect for how I feel it in that moment.

That's why I play my new songs live: I know that will change a song and make it grow. There are things about a song, at this stage, that really drive me crazy.

You know, I'm not Bob Dylan, I don't have that kind of brain, I really need to feel that sensation.

It's something physical. Thinking kills feeling. That's how it works for me, because I don't have that kind of mind: I can't figure it out, I have to feel it.

Last question. Is it true that you build your own website yourself?

Yes, it's true. It's exciting: I'm building my own website myself, would you ever have thought it? (we laugh. Mark really is very funny!). I get help from a friend of mine, who tells me how to use a mainframe and other stuff.

Why did you decide to do this yourself too?

Because I wanted it to reflect me. Some artists' websites don't reflect them at all.

The Anti-pop Consortium's website is the best I've seen: it's truly gorgeous. I'm impressed by it: there's a lot of flash in it. It's well put together, whereas most websites are just: here's my merchandising, this is my story, here's where I'm playing, thanks.

I hate that crap.

The Kraftwerk website is gorgeous too.

It must be gorgeous: if you're Kraftwerk you have to have a brilliant website!

(Milan, La Casa 139 – November 25, 2005)

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