Isan - Synthetic Fables and IDM Artifice

As a companion piece to the feature in which we trace the entire career of the English electronic duo, we caught up with Antony Ryan and Robin Saville for a chat about long-distance collaboration, electronic music and a few curiosities.

Hi guys, I'd been meaning to write about your career for a long time, and I'm really glad I finally did. How are you doing? Are you happy with how “Glass Bird Movement” has been going?

R: Good, thanks, life's treating me well. I have to say yes, we're pretty happy with “Glass Bird Movement”. When we started out as Isan, just managing to release something was enough to make us happy. I'm not saying we had particularly low expectations, but every time a new record came out we felt privileged just thinking that there were people out there interested in what we do. We're modest people.

A: Greetings from Denmark! All good, thanks, I'm enjoying an incredible summer… for once you don't have to head south to find some sun, especially if, like me, you live near the sea. Like Robin, I'm also really happy with how GBM turned out and with the great reception it's had… finding out that people still like what we do after a little over 20 years is really special.

This year in fact marks the twentieth anniversary since the start of your career (“Beautronics” came out in 1998). Tell us about your beginnings and how your project came about.

A: Actually, the first thing we released was the track “Eusa's Head” on the “Splintered Roots” EP, released on Fragments (a side label of Howie B.'s), which was followed by a handful of other singles, but yes, “Beautronics” was our first full album. Now, twenty years on, we're working with students from the University of Hong Kong (together with our friend Max Hattler) to make videos for tracks from that album — it's been really lovely to see these songs get a new lease of life, like for instance the animation for “Iam Twisq”.

Anyway, going back to our beginnings… We started ISAN because Robin and I were working together on a techno project called Rephlex, which got a pretty poor reception. Then Robin moved to another part of the country. ISAN really came about as a way of collaborating remotely, to keep working together despite everything, swapping cassette tapes by post! We sent out a couple of demo collections, and we were really lucky to get contacted and picked up by Fragments. We've just kept growing ever since. We've worked more or less the same way from that point on (updating, of course, to swapping files online and sharing DAW projects), but even now we basically only end up playing together in the same room when we perform live.

I don't imagine it's easy to find the right chemistry to write music while living in different cities. I've always wondered how it's even possible. Are you part of any music scene in the cities where you currently live? Besides your career with the band, do you have other jobs also connected to music?

R: We never really stopped to think about whether our way of working was right or wrong, it was basically the only way possible for us at the time. To be honest, thinking about it now, I think we've managed to get the best of both worlds. I can work on a track as much or as little as I want without worrying about Antony listening to what I'm doing, so it's a bit like having the advantages of working alone while still sharing and getting new input and suggestions from your creative partner. I don't have any other jobs in music and, in fact, I'm not in touch with any other local musicians. I find that time spent away from the studio is just as useful in feeding the creative process.

A: I think distance is actually a great help to collaboration. Each of us has time to listen, absorb, and really understand what the other is doing. There's no need to argue about it in the moment, or pass immediate judgment that might end up blocking the creative flow if we were working together in the studio at the same time. Distance also makes it easier to take criticism well when something isn't working, and as far as I can remember, there's never been a real disagreement between us. Over the years we've developed a kind of instinct for what the other is creating (even though I don't always understand "how" Robin works, which is a big part of the fun of working with him), to the point that we can get together after months apart and play a new track live on stage that we've never even rehearsed together before. My other job in the music industry is as a freelance audio engineer, I do mastering work (RedRedPaw Mastering). I like to think of it as a creative job in its own right too, because I often have to find "musical" solutions for whatever project I'm working on, and I love trying to inject some new ideas into the tracks I'm handling. Of course the job involves a lot of stuff that's more technical and less creative, but I find the technology behind it really interesting. It's a job I enjoy a lot and it's very satisfying when the artist gets their masters back and is happy with the result. The only small downside is that sometimes I have to listen to way too much music every week... I've worked on more than 500 projects, meaning thousands and thousands of tracks, and even though I usually work on music I like, I think in the long run that can end up affecting the creative process.

I've often read similar answers in other interviews, it was just something I was curious about, and I have to say you came up with a really interesting analysis. Getting back to your music, I find it to be a perfect fusion of various styles, especially ambient, IDM and electro, among others. How did you manage to achieve such effective results right from the start? Listening to "Clockwork Menagerie", a collection that includes a lot of your early work, it's really striking.

R: That's very kind of you. I suppose there were several influences all mixing together at the same time, plus our tendency to make music with electronic instruments but with an "indie" spirit. Everything became clearer over the years though, in the sense that we defined a sound that's entirely our own, and starting from certain influences is now practically inevitable for us.

A: Honestly, it kind of surprises me to realize we still manage to "have our own sound"! Robin and I share a particular sensibility that was surely there from the very beginning, but somehow we've never really talked about it openly. Sometimes we know how to put it into words, for instance when we go back over our notes to prepare new tracks for live shows, other times we don't; either way, I almost always know what Robin is going to come up with, and I don't need to worry about his work anymore. So it really comes down to trusting our instincts and our sensibilities without talking about it too much.

Are there any artists or records in particular that have inspired you? Do you have other sources of inspiration besides music? What do you usually listen to?

R: Influences are always an interesting topic — it can happen that while listening to certain music I notice some interesting ideas and think it would be nice to try to recreate them, knowing full well that any attempt of mine will end up being something different from the original, because of differences in taste, gear, technical skill and so on... Other times it can simply be the overall mood of a track that makes me want to create something. I listen to a lot of ambient and, let's say, abstract music, but I also still listen to the radio, I like Indian music (the classical kind, very free-form and extended), and even more often I make a point of not listening to anything at all. I'm a big fan of the music of Emily Sprague and Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith right now, they're creating truly magical stuff.

A: For me an untouchable milestone is "The Pearl" by Harold Budd and Brian Eno, it's one of the very few albums I never get tired of listening to. My constant inspirations, the ones that go through my head the most when I'm making new music, sit somewhere between that kind of ambient and 90s shoegaze bands, especially My Bloody Valentine and Slowdive. I've also long been interested in the concept of generative music (we always end up back at Brian Eno), the idea of using generative software can lead you in ever-new directions and inspirations, which is something I love. My work as a sound engineer has me listening to music pretty much all day, which gives me the chance to draw new inspiration from what I hear, especially because I deal with genres that are really quite different from one another. Aside from that though, I usually don't choose what to listen to myself, I prefer to let others recommend things, including my favourite radio DJs.

Now that I think about it, can you tell us the story behind the acronym ISAN?

A: Hahahaha... well, the reason we chose to move away from writing all the capital letters of "I.S.A.N." was so we wouldn't have to explain it anymore! Anyway, when we first started making music together by trading tapes through the post, we thought it would be a fun little trick to tweak the acronym "I.S.D.N." (Integrated Services Digital Network), which was the most advanced data connection technology at the time. This is the early 90s... we thought that replacing the "D" of "Digital" with the "A" of "Analogue" represented well the music we were making, so we decided it was a good name for our project. These days though we're also fine with just being "Isan".

I expected you'd say that! But I'm sure a lot of our readers won't know the meaning of your moniker, even though you've been around for such a long time. And the explanation is also the perfect way to better understand your music. Am I wrong?

A: Yes, I have to say it's always nice to give a bit of background, and it also ties back to how essential it is for us to work separately, something that's actually meaningfully reflected in our name too. The idea of moving away from the acronym also partly came from the fact that people were starting to pronounce it "eye-san" or "issan" instead of "I S A N", and we thought it would be better to make things simpler.

One of the things that has always drawn me most to your work is the artwork. In my opinion, the covers of "Lucky Cat" or "Clockwork Menagerie" are an integral part of your art. I did some research and found out that your artwork has always been created by Jan Kruse. Did you have any part in making it, or have you always left it to the artist or the label?

R: In the early days our covers were usually made by our friend Carl Harris. He and Antony are childhood friends, and we share a very similar aesthetic sense with him, so we wanted the artwork to have that same "handmade", not-too-polished feel that our music also had. I think the visual side complemented the musical side perfectly. Then when we started releasing music on Morr Music, we were put in touch with Jan Kruse, who handles the label's overall design. For Thomas Morr it was very important to keep a consistent style across every release on his label. We always discuss the artwork together with Jan, and more recently with Julia Guther, and generally we're involved in the process from start to finish. We're really lucky to be able to work with such talented, professional artists.

Yes, I think the right connection with your work has always been maintained, even with different artists.  Speaking of the collaboration with Thomas Morr, alongside various other artists (Lali Puna, Styrofoam, Bernard Fleischmann), I've always seen you as the true symbol of the Morr Music sound. Have you ever felt part of a scene? How did your collaboration with the historic Berlin label begin?

R: I have to say I've never felt part of a scene. It really was wonderful to get that first email from Thomas Morr and start working with him. What also struck us was the fact that he lived with Markus Acher. From there on, the rest is history, I'd say. We've met several other musicians working in an area similar to ours, but I've never actually collaborated with anyone else, and I always try to keep our sound distinct from that of our (excellent) labelmates.

A: In a way, it's less a scene than an extended family. We often play the same shows together, and we have a lot of fun. Going to festivals and running into the other Morr acts is a bit like bumping into your cousins every now and then at a wedding.

Did you know that Italian director Paolo Sorrentino (and his music collaborator Pasquale Catalano) has often used your songs in his films? Have you seen them? Did you like them? I think his over-the-top style creates a perfect balance with a lot of your compositions.

R: Yes, and in this case too it's a huge privilege to get to know such a talented artist. The first work of his we became aware of was “Le conseguenze dell'amore”, which featured our “Remegio”, and it's been one of my favorite films ever since, so I'm truly honored! I've followed his career with interest from then on, right up to finding ourselves included once again in the soundtrack of “The Young Pope”. It would be lovely to meet him in person and thank him for including our work in his masterpieces.

Let's not forget “Cathart” in his debut “L'amico di famiglia”! To wrap up, tell us: what are your plans for the future? Are you working on new material? Or will you each go back to working on your own for a while? Do you have an actual tour or any new shows in the works?

A: Yes, we're working on a new album, but we haven't quite mapped out the path yet. We've finished a few tracks and are working on others, and we'll keep doing that until we feel we've got a sort of critical mass of tracks that cohabit the same sonic space — what we still call an “album”. It seems to me that the future of music distribution, and of listening, is increasingly built around artists releasing material drop by drop and fans assembling their own playlists. Which is fine, mind you — I'm sure I listen to music that way too. If we'd wanted to, we could certainly have already doled out a dozen or so new tracks that way! But for now at least we prefer to stick to the old style and build a complete album out of the fragments we're creating, setting aside whatever tracks are left over, maybe for some special occasion.

R: I agree — sometimes it's easy to focus more on releasing whatever you happen to have on hand at a given moment, rather than polishing it until you feel you've made the best possible music. That feels more important to me than worrying about when to release the music. Sometimes a track needs months of work before it sits well with the others, and it does feel like we're working more and more slowly as the years go by. But in the end, I think what matters is making the music you have in mind and want to hear, and to me that still means putting together a full album — and that's what we'll do.

Translation by Mauro Roma

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