New Pornographers - Having Fun with Keyboards

It wasn't intentional, but when we noticed it, we decided it worked. It feels like a happy little accident. The reason we did it is that earlier in the same song, I think in the third verse, we repeated the same words but only three times, like this: "How you got it for a song, a song, a song". I thought that could be a nice thing, so why not bring the loop back at the end? We already had the base progression of the song and it was purely instrumental, and we said to ourselves, "why not put that in too, that loop". So we started harmonizing it. Even though the word "song" is in there, I hear it as an instrumental break, as if we'd used the word "song" the way we might have used an instrument, or the same way we might have sung "pa pa pa" or "sha la la".

So it's a different thing compared to that other song, where you sang "the song, the song, the song that's shaking me".

Yes, but I like referencing the past, I always like it when bands do that, when Paul McCartney starts singing "She Loves You" at the end of "All You Need Is Love", for example. I've always loved self-referential things.

Since we're talking about "Play Money", the lyrics are about managing to make a living from your own music, which is something audiences usually think is a lot easier than it really is. There are bands and labels that people who listen to a lot of music assume can easily make a living from their records or releases just because they get the impression they're popular, but it's often much harder than it looks from the outside.

That's true, I think a lot of people don't know how things really are, I think when you grow up and look at musicians, you think of them as rock stars. When you're a kid, the idea that someone in a rock band might even just be middle class seems really strange to you. Then, once you start playing, you realize it's actually reality that's strange. When we played on TV a few times, people I went to school with thought I'd become super famous, because I was on TV. And it's not easy to explain that yes, it's wonderful to be on TV, but it doesn't mean you're paid a million dollars for it. Actually, when I say "I only play for money", I'm not really being serious, but I think I'm simply admitting that this has become my job, and it's a strange thing, when what you love becomes your job.

Right, for instance I'm not a professional journalist, I do it because I love doing it but I don't get paid, so I can relate, it would be strange if it became my job.

It changes the dynamic, because at a certain point, if the first record hadn't sold anything, it wouldn't have bothered me that much, because I wasn't expecting it to happen, but it's strange when it instead becomes something you depend on, it changes the dynamic.

You started out as a band, and I think you still are one, made up of people who also have other musical projects. Aside from the specific issue of Daniel Bejar aka Destroyer being absent from this record due to scheduling conflicts, in general how hard is it every time to line up everyone's schedules to record an album?

It's always been difficult, right from the start. We had trouble getting together even when we lived in the same city, and now it's tough, because we have to fly to see each other. Actually, the fact that someone is more or less famous than someone else doesn't change the dynamic within the group, because when we're together, we're always the same people. The difficulty of booking people has been there for 15 years, it's something that never changes and I've simply accepted it as part of my life.

As for songwriting, are you the only songwriter in the band or do others contribute too?

Apart from the songs written by Dan, he's written 3 for every record, I'm the songwriter. Others write too, but for this band, I think there's simply an understanding that I'm the songwriter. The whole band contributes tons of ideas to the arrangements and all that side of things, but nobody pushes to get their own songs onto the records, there's just an agreement that I'm the person who writes the songs.

From what you've said, though, this is the first album written entirely by you, since Daniel is absent this time.

Yes, that's one difference, but in a way, it's not that different, because if Dan were on this record, it would have been the same album plus three songs. For me, in that sense, writing songs for a record that also includes Dan's songs makes no difference at all.

As a band, how do you go about deciding how a record should sound? Do you work with a producer, do you talk it through collectively to reach a decision, how does it work?

I always have an idea of what I want to do, for instance "Play Money" was one of the first songs to be put together, and I had the idea that this record would be a kind of bubblegum kraut-rock album, so I went from there. Once "Play Money" came together, I thought "I like the vibe it has, I like how I moved and I like the tempo", and from there we all agreed the record should have those qualities. At the start of every album it's just a small idea, then together we figure out how to move forward.

Do you think it's fair to say this is your most keyboard-driven record?

Definitely, it sure is! There are plenty of keyboards on the previous record too, but I think this time we all went a bit crazy for keyboards. I love playing them, it's a lot of fun, it's fun to manipulate the sounds, and that happens more often with keyboards. Sometimes it's also fun to manipulate the sound of guitars or vocals, but at a certain point I started getting a bit tired of guitars. I know there are still plenty of them in our sound, but I wanted to move toward something different.

I went back and listened to the previous record after hearing this one, and I found that the song “Champions Of Red Wine” would fit perfectly on this album too. Maybe it's the only one that's so similar to these new songs. 

Yeah, I think “Champions Of Red Wine” is one of my favorite songs from “Brill Bruisers” because it's got a ton of crazy synths in it. For this record, we told ourselves “let's go even further down this road.” “You Tell Me Where” too, the last song on “Brill Bruisers”, has a similar vibe, but “Champions Of Red Wine” is definitely the point we started from to get to this record.

As for the record's tracklist, I get the impression you wanted to group together the songs with a similar melodic style. The first four are the ones with the most immediate, catchy melodies, and then, melodically speaking, you do different things as the album goes on.

Yes, that's right! I think the first four songs are the pop songs on the record, and that from there on things shift a bit toward prog. I think it's a pretty common way to sequence songs for a record, hooking the listener with the most immediate songs first and then doing stranger things afterward. 

As for the record's lyrics, do you think they can be described in a general way, or does each song have its own subject with no overarching concept tying the whole record together? For instance, I read that “High Ticket Attraction” is about the impact of Donald Trump's election.

It wasn't my intention to write a political song, but it was hard to escape the anxiety that defined America. I think that comes through in several songs, not very consciously, but I believe there's a kind of anxiety running through a number of them. I also think there's hope in them, I mean, there's anxiety and sadness, but the songs push back against those feelings. I find that's a recurring theme in a lot of our music.

The last question is about your shows: you're currently touring America and then you'll be coming to Europe, but unfortunately not to Italy, and I don't think you've ever played here. But if one day we're lucky enough to see you live over here, what can we expect?

I never know how to answer that question. We want our shows to be fun, to be as joyful an event as possible, we're not a shoegaze band. I don't know why we've never come to Italy, I'd love to, I spent 10 days in Rome with my wife and I loved it, I'd really like to go back.

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