Sneers - For humanity to rest

Tuscan-Trentino by origin, Roman in passing and Berliner by adoption, the duo made up of Maria Greta Blaankart and Leonardo O. Stefenelli has spent years pursuing an intriguing project of sabotage from within genres like noise, No wave and gothic rock. I reach them by phone to talk about their third album "Heaven Will Rescue Us, We're The Scum, We're In The Sun" and take stock of their nomadic career.

I'd like to start by reconstructing your geographically tortuous journey…

MG: Sneers was born in Berlin at the end of 2012. After a year and a half we moved to Rome, for work and personal reasons. We stayed there for a while but never really considered it our city, neither of us is from Rome (I'm from Pistoia, Leonardo from Trento) and during that period we still went back to Berlin often, for work and for fun.

Did you already know each other before moving to Berlin?

L: Yes, through mutual friends, both of us playing in different projects. Now we're about to move back there permanently, even though we struggle to stay put – maybe we still haven't found our place…

Let's focus on your artistic path: one thing that fascinated me about "For Our Soul, Uplifting Lights To Shine As Fires" is the idea of taking typically "urban" genres like No wave and noise and decontextualizing them, turning them into something transcendental, almost mystical, stripping away the metropolitan, "earthly" veneer that usually defines them. Was that a conscious operation, or is that too fanciful an interpretation on my part?

MG: It wasn't a conscious choice, so it could be your own interpretation, but based on something real. Our path is fairly random, we follow instinct…

L: The two genres you mentioned are definitely present and, as you say, are somehow connected to the idea of the metropolis. The mystical dimension you're talking about, I think, mostly comes from the lyrics…

Who writes them?

MG: I do. It's a very immediate, direct kind of writing, never the classic process of starting from lyrics and arriving at a melody. Usually I start from a phrase that gets stuck in my head. Take "Heaven Will Rescue Us, We're The Scum, We're In The Sun", for example: that line came first, giving birth to the song, and then the whole album followed. The phrase becomes a mantra, the mantra becomes melody, and from the melody the song emerges, which is then arranged.

Compared to your beginnings, I get the impression you're becoming increasingly gothic, both musically and lyrically. Between the first and second album I already noticed a strong emphasis on the dark side, which was perhaps there from the start but mostly confined to the lyrics, whereas from "With Flames Like Hope To Mortals Given" onward it became dominant in the sound too…

L: Yes, "For Our Soul, Uplifting Lights To Shine As Fires" was a more impulsive work, it was our first album together and we were still looking for a direction that gradually took shape. Now the way we build songs musically is much more deliberate. I wouldn't necessarily call it gothic, although some sounds and atmospheres definitely come from there, especially on the second album. The last two records are more thought-out and complex, so it's probably easier to place them musically compared to the first one, which was more chaotic and less atmospheric. But even here it's been a spontaneous journey, we never told ourselves to take one path rather than another.

MG: Personally, I actually find that the last two albums have several more open moments, and that the first one is much darker, but I think that's a fairly contrarian view of mine.

L: The underlying darkness has always been there, it's just more recognizable in our recent work, since it's generally more defined.

They're two different kinds of bleakness: the first is oppressive and monochromatic, the other two are airier and more atmospheric. I think it also has to do with the fact that folk and psychedelic elements have increasingly been creeping in, especially on the latest record. In the review I draw a parallel with so-called "satanic folk", that undercurrent of progressive which, between the late Sixties and early Seventies, flirted explicitly with esoteric and occult themes: Comus, Black Widow, Coven, Cromagnon, Paul Giovanni and so on...

L: The folk component is absolutely there, especially in terms of instrumentation. There's less electric guitar.

MG: In the writing too: all the tracks were composed on acoustic guitar, and I think you can hear it. There's definitely that repetitive, mantra-like element from folk that I mentioned earlier.

L: I really like the definition "satanic folk", anyway! Maybe it'll go down less well with mothers, though...

It's not supposed to appeal to mothers! (we laugh) One new thing about "Heaven Will Rescue Us, We're The Scum, We're In The Sun" is the use of the voice: on the first record it was sung a bit in a Lydia Lunch style, now it's more of a witch's sneer, or something possessed... It no longer conveys simple existential anguish, but something more unsettling...

MG: That comes down to two factors: first of all, the way the vocals were recorded, cut from start to finish in a single take, with no edits or overdubs. Keeping the first take of a vocal preserves a whole set of nuances that would inevitably be lost if you tried it again, because even within the first half hour of a song's life, the singer starts settling into what they now take for granted. Even pitch slips or wonky phrasing play a role in enriching the performance. This ties into the second aspect: every song tells a story, and as such it has to be interpreted. I definitely paid more attention to that, and it goes a long way toward making each track distinct from the others.

In fact every song is full of shifts, and it almost sounds like it's sung by a different person each time... Were the individual vocal takes treated differently, in terms of effects I mean, or is it purely a matter of performance?

MG: No, not at all, at most there's a bit of reverb. It's all down to the performance.

Let's talk about the lyrics. Here too there are new elements: first of all, a literary imagery we might call southern gothic, almost Faulknerian, with a morbid taste for dwelling on macabre detail and gruesome scenes described in a dynamic, murder ballad style. Do you recognize this kind of influence?

MG: Certainly. Do you have a specific track in mind, or are you talking about the whole record?

It struck me as a recurring feature. In the review I specifically mention "Fevers For Believers" and "Evil Does That Thing"...

MG: Exactly, I was actually thinking of "Evil Does That Thing", but also "Rossella In Badlands". Some of them are true stories, albeit fictionalized. For instance, the first track you mentioned is entirely true, while the second is inspired by the experience of someone we know.

L: These are very raw images, but it's the world that's truly cruel, not us...

Absolutely, in fact there's no cynicism in what you do, it feels more like a snapshot of a very tangible Evil. That ties in with the second element I picked up on: a religiosity that's always delirious and over the top, here too vaguely Cave-esque...

MG: Absolutely. Actually it hasn't become more radical, it's always been there. Every song tells a story, and the religious element comes into play whenever the protagonist is asking for something. It's a selfish, opportunistic kind of religiosity.

Right, as if you were calling for supernatural intervention to get yourself out of a jam, and from characters who are never truly innocent: it's a record populated by sinners…

MG: Absolutely, they're all stories of sinners. Maybe the only glimmer of light is in "For Humanity To Rest", another song where the religious component is very strong, where the negative element is represented by death.

It's a record with a lot of spirit and a lot of flesh, both of them bloody. I think that's what redeems you from the loss of credibility afflicting anyone who, these days, insists on handling this kind of material. I mean, it's plain to see how much the gothic universe is in crisis: an imagery that should feel unsettling now relies solely on the airless rehashing of stereotyped models, producing music that is anything but dark, and which, not by chance, is almost always made by people of staggering mediocrity and conformism. Granted, the fashion angle has always been part of it, but it seems to me that the new dark crowd only cares about fashion and going out dancing, which incidentally doesn't strike me as a particularly "dark" activity… Your music, on the other hand, is ritualistic, it truly summons spectral forces, whereas most of your peers limit themselves to summoning their idols…

L: Sure, and maybe that's because we really are two disturbed people (laughs). Aside from that, we don't come from that scene, even though we share a lot of the same listening habits. Both as musicians and as listeners we don't belong to that imagery, we've never dressed a certain way and we've never gone to certain nights out, it's not our scene of reference, even if we've absorbed something from it along the way. There are plenty of influences in what we do, but in terms of canon we don't identify with any of them. What you're saying about us, which I also find very positive, I think stems from that.

MG: Dressing in black and slathering everything in reverb isn't enough to make alternative music — if anything, attitudes like that do a disservice to listeners, especially newcomers, who get used to thinking of things as alternative when they're nothing of the sort.

L: At the end of the day it's the usual conversation about attitude, the same way you can't spot a punk just by the mohawk and the boots. Identifying certain genres with stereotypes that have little to do with the music only serves to create templates, while what you actually want to express has to be sought first and foremost within yourself.

MG: What matters is being honest, not being dark…

L: Exactly. Someone like Michael Gira, who's never worn make-up or leather and studs, has a far darker gaze than a band that calls itself dark but is maybe just glossy.

Since you mentioned Swans, let's talk about the prestigious guest who appears on the latest album (Kristof Hahn, ed.)… What was it like working with him, and what kind of contribution did he make?

MG: Honestly, it was a last-second decision. We were already almost done with the recordings when we met Kristof, we started talking about the album and, on the spot, it occurred to us to ask him to play some lap steel parts, with all the naivety in the world…

But how did you get in touch with him?

L: We'd already met him through some friends because in Berlin he hangs out at a venue called Cuore di Vetro, where a lot of people from the city's historic music scene gravitate. We ran into him again during the recordings and, while chatting, we asked him to play on the record. We also talked it over with our producer, Craig Dyer of Underground Youth, and agreed it was a great idea, also because he's an extremely skilled musician. I think he added something to the record.

I'd say so, especially on a few songs. Going back to what we were saying earlier, maybe the fact that you're a duo also helps set you apart, it makes your sound leaner, at a time when most acts rely on overproduction to mask a lack of inspiration…

MG: Yes, we're very careful not to overload things, even in the studio where we'd have the chance to. We always try to record something that can easily be reproduced live.

L: Also, always being just the two of us, both in the writing and the performing stage, forces us to be very connected to one another, without having to add things that wouldn't be needed and would make the tracks less distinctive and more generic.

MG: We like doing things as a duo because it gives us total control over what we produce. We're very DIY in that sense, and not just musically: Leonardo also takes care of the artwork and videos.

L: Sometimes we do actually feel the need to bring someone else in, but being just the two of us helps us stay focused on what we can and want to do without losing ourselves. In the studio, ideas for enriching the sound always come up, but we try never to go too far, to stay anchored to the dimension that suits us best. If that's the impression you got too, then clearly this method works.

Also because I don't know to what extent the level of complicity and chemistry you've built between you could be passed on to additional members. Earlier you mentioned Berlin: what kind of city is it now?

L: It's a city that has undoubtedly changed, especially in recent years, compared to when we first arrived. But I think it's still a place that has a lot to offer, on a human and artistic scale. There are a lot of interesting things going on; musically there are various festivals - for instance, last year we played at Interkosmos, organized by our booking agency El Borracho, which is one of the best for the kind of music we make. The underground scene, both present and past, is still strong, holding up against the impact of newer, more globalized names. In short, I think it's still a valid city.

MG: Just to give you an idea, it's a city where you can go get a coffee at three in the afternoon and run into Bob Rutman, who'll start telling you anecdotes about the old days...

L: The important thing is not to be scared off by change, not to stay too anchored to the 1980s Berlin of Nick Cave and Wim Wenders... If you know where to look, you realize it's not just clubbing and techno, thankfully.

The tour you're about to embark on is the most extensive you've ever done...

MG: Yes, we have dates in France, Belgium, the UK, and especially Spain and Portugal, countries where we've never played before. It's going to be pretty intense, we've got basically no days off, but it'll be very rewarding. For the London date we'll be at Rough Trade - I'll let you imagine how we felt when they told us... For me it's a dream come true.

Well, I can imagine. There was also a label change, this is your first time with a non-Italian label. Do you think this could broaden your reach and, indirectly, change your music?

MG: In terms of reach, it definitely allows us to hit targets that would otherwise be less within reach, since it's a Manchester-based label. For instance, the Rough Trade date was made possible through their connections.

L: Coming up, we'll be playing on BBC radio on Stuart Maconie's show, "Freak Zone". This too was made possible thanks to them, as was getting a review in "The Wire". Having an English label behind you lets you broaden your audience and get direct access to a lot of great opportunities.

MG: Generally speaking, the scene in the UK is very stimulating - in terms of venues you have plenty of options, live music is an integral part of everyday life there.

L: Also, being an English label, they've put out records by several artists we like. Overall, it helps us step outside our own borders.

What's your relationship with Italy like, on the other hand?

L: It's good, we're not foreign-obsessed. But in terms of cultural influence, we feel closer to other contexts. That doesn't mean there aren't more than interesting musical scenes in Italy.

MG: We've always played more abroad than in Italy, which is pretty strange, but it wasn't a deliberate choice, we've never snubbed our own country. I think it just comes down to the fact that in Italy we have a smaller pool of listeners compared to, say, France, where we'd never played before going there, and yet we immediately found more of a following. It could just be down to chance.

L: We've never ruled anything out, maybe our music simply has more appeal abroad, perhaps because our influences come from there.

Along the way, have you happened to form a special bond with any fellow musicians?

MG: A good bond is the one with Craig Dyer, who we met at a festival where he was playing with Underground Youth, and with whom we developed a rapport that eventually led to the record. Aside from that occasion, there haven't been any other collaborations worth mentioning.

L: Also because, having always been fairly nomadic, we've never really managed to tie ourselves too closely to any particular scene.

Didn't you record a split with Silent Carnival?

L: That's true, but that wasn't really a proper collaboration, since it happened remotely: they were in Sicily, we were touring around Europe. Unfortunately we never managed to meet them in person, it was the label that put the record together. Either way, it turned out to be a good product, and we were glad to be part of it.

Generally speaking, is there anyone you feel is close to your musical sensibility?

L: One artist we've been listening to and admiring a lot lately is Paolo Spaccamonti, we especially loved his album with Jochen Arbeit. In terms of storytelling, though, no name comes to mind that I feel close to, precisely because we've never really belonged to a specific scene.

What's next for these eternal nomads known as Sneers?

MG: Over the next few months we'll be busy touring, non-stop until October and then more occasionally until January. After that we'll set off on another tour that will take us to places we've never been (Austria, Poland, Croatia, Eastern Europe in general). Then we'll definitely record a new album that we've already written, we should start working on it around March, at the end of the tour. As for the rest, we'll take it step by step...

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