Simona Molinari - Petals of a rebirth

Seven years between one album and the next is an eternity for an artist. But in Simona Molinari's case, the recording hiatus – punctuated by various other projects – served to prepare a rebirth. Sealed by “Petali”, the album released in 2022 that earned her the Targa Tenco award for Best Performer. A prize that couldn't be more deserved for this standout figure of Italian electro-swing, long one of the finest Italian singers around, yet too often penalized by the specificity of her musical output and by a heavily male-dominated environment that even put her career at risk. Thankfully, her turnaround – culminating in a change of management – has given us back an artist in full bloom, as also shown by her recent, delightful performance on the TV show “Bar Stella” on Rai2.

We talk about all this – and much more – with her in this wide-ranging chat, in which she reveals both her musical curiosity and a distinctly Neapolitan verve, tempered though – as she herself says – by the strict discipline of Abruzzo, her “second homeland”, where she spent much of her adolescence and was struck by the lightning bolt of jazz.

Hi Simona. You closed out 2022 with the final dates of the "Petali" tour. How did it go?

It went really well. I brought together pretty much everything that's been part of my artistic story, from the beginning to today, but I tried to find a meaning for the shows that went beyond the music and the mere display of my repertoire. And the fil rouge was a journey through life's seasons: falling in love, passion, deception, disillusionment, commitment, dreams and so on. Basically, all the phases of life in which I found myself writing songs. On tour I reconnected with everyone who's followed me on this journey, but also with many people who only knew me through a few songs and instead got to discover my whole story in depth, making it their own. Because these, in the end, are the seasons of everyone's life. We found each other again and were moved together.

Will you have more dates in 2023? And, out of personal interest: will you be in Rome too?

In 2023 we've already had a lot of requests, we'll be adding new stops in the cities that matter most to me, and Rome is definitely among them.

The live show is my favourite dimension. I like that my songs become new every night. And on stage I feel like the amplifier of two energies, that of the musicians behind me and that of the audience in front of me

Is it true that the live format, more than the album, is your true dimension?

Yes, I feel more suited to live performance, maybe because there's no premeditation behind it, it's the truth showing itself on stage, without filters. It's the thing I do best, more than sitting down to think about a record. I like that something can be created anew each time: obviously there's a foundation, the song is what it is, but in concert it becomes new every time. A little miracle that can only happen on stage, where I find myself acting as an amplifier of two energies: the one behind me, from my musicians, and the one in front of me, from the audience listening to me. I feel like a doorway between two worlds, I just have to open my mouth and amplify that energy: the result is a kind of total embrace.

We also saw you on TV in a brilliant performance on "Bar Stella" with Stefano De Martino. And I also remember you on "Sogno e son desto", Massimo Ranieri's show. Have you ever thought you'd make a perfect TV star?

On "Bar Stella" I had a lot of fun too. Yes, I also went through a TV period, which was fulfilling, though it can happen that at other times you're more focused on recording projects or tours, but it's always a pleasant experience, one I'd gladly repeat.

My roots remain in jazz, but in these seven years the world has changed, and so with ‘Petali’ I decided to steer towards singer-songwriter pop, putting myself at the service of the words

Let's talk instead about “Petali”, your 2022 album. Why did you decide to steer towards pop and the singer-songwriter tradition, setting your swing sound somewhat aside?

My roots are still in jazz and everything that surrounds it, but there was this shift towards pop, for various reasons. First of all, the world has changed a bit in these seven years: when I found myself back in the studio with my collaborators and my record label, we took stock of that and of the need to change the way we communicate too. For me communication comes before everything, even before the music: I could make the most beautiful things in the world, but if they're not received and understood, and end up being mistaken for virtuosity or narcissism, they give me nothing back. Every song, to me, is a dialogue with the listener. So I thought, while still staying in a mostly acoustic setting and not too electronic, of steering towards this singer-songwriter pop, putting my way of communicating at the service of the words. I didn't want to just go through the motions, chasing a certain kind of sound. My motivations were, in short, completely different from those behind my other records.

An album arriving 7 years after its predecessor, 2015's “La casa mia”. Why such a long break?

These seven years have been a complicated journey. I became a mother, and so I changed as a woman too. And there was a particular situation around me: I had problems with my old management, from whom at a certain point I split.

Yes, I read about that. But worse for them, I'd say, no? (we laugh)

Heheh… I don't know, what I do know is that I feel very happy to have gone through this journey. It's as if I'd come out of a bubble I'd been put into, or that I'd gotten myself into: let's not always blame others… I had let certain people be in a position to steer and manipulate me however they wanted.

I felt manipulated and trapped in a bubble: I saw the world only through the eyes of the people around me. When they told me that, after becoming a mother, nothing would be the same again, I took the blow without reacting the way I should have. Now, thankfully, I've changed everything

On that note, a line from a recent interview of yours struck me: “Artistically I expressed what I wanted, but I did it wearing a mask, playing the role of a burlesque diva.” Why did you feel you had that mask on?

Let's put it this way: up until 10 years ago, I felt – or rather, the people close to me made me feel – that I was first and foremost a woman, then a singer, and then a songwriter. I let others put that aspect front and centre, which doesn't shock me, because it still happens today. But in the long run, all of that makes you lose confidence in who you are, and gain it only in how you appear. It's strange, but it happens.

Let me try to put it into words: did you feel you were being used a bit as a pretty, sensual girl, at the expense of your soul as a songwriter?

Exactly, and when I became a mother, these people made me understand that everything would change, because a part of me was going to be missing.

But that's a horrible thing!

Yeah, it is. But because of a personality flaw of mine, instead of reacting the way any girl would today, perhaps using social media as a weapon, I just took the hit. I'm a millennial, by the way: I'm in that generation that knows well what things were like before, but has watched a thousand changes happen before its eyes, changes it doesn't feel it has fully mastered. People born after me definitely understand the potential of those tools much better. So I too thought I should step aside because I had less appeal. Today it seems absurd even to me, but at the time I felt like a prisoner of that bubble: I didn't see the world with my own eyes, but through those of other people, in a way that kept me from perceiving reality. And at that moment it seemed like the most normal thing in the world to me. I at least had to hide the fact that I was going to have problems and that things wouldn't be the same anymore.

It's true that sexism in music, especially in Italy, dies hard…

Yes, but, as I was saying, girls today, thankfully, react differently. For example, Levante, when she had a baby, was really good at conveying her motherhood without flaunting it too much, even during a promotional period.

Without going to the excesses of a Chiara Ferragni, I mean...

Yes, well, I definitely wouldn't be capable of that kind of display. But you can certainly do it in a balanced and intelligent way, making people understand it's an important event in a woman's life. Without keeping quiet about it, but without overdoing it either, both for ethical reasons and for the child's own peace of mind, since one day they might tell you: “I never wanted to be exposed like that.”

“Petali” breathes a strong sense of intimacy and authenticity, but above all a sense of rebirth. Even the story of the homeless woman in “Lei balla sola” seems above all a celebration of freedom. Was this also a personal rebirth for you?

Yes, there's a strong desire for freedom, a desire to be yourself. I see the protagonist of “Lei balla da sola” less as a homeless woman and more as a woman who sheds all social conventions and sets off to travel the world fearlessly. In fact, even today, for many women the idea of traveling alone still stirs up some fear. I'm quite a wanderer myself, and I feel free - I wanted to express that part of me.

I laugh and eat like a Neapolitan, but the harshness of Abruzzo taught me discipline and rigor in this job. So I've developed a sort of Abruzzese Super-Ego

Despite your absolutely perfect diction, you have a very strong dual heritage: you were born in Naples but then lived in L'Aquila. How do these two souls, the Neapolitan and the Abruzzese, combine within you?

I come from a Neapolitan family, even though I moved away when I was young. So, as they say, “I laugh and eat like a Neapolitan”...

Which, by the way, is nothing to complain about...

No, exactly! But then, when it comes to my mentality about music, training, and discipline, there's a strong Abruzzese component. Harshness is a trait of that region, so the “Abruzzese stick” is what gave me discipline, without stripping away this very Neapolitan restlessness and desire for freedom. In short, I have two souls inside me: the Abruzzese Super-Ego that scolds me, and this Neapolitan restlessness of mine that comes out everywhere.

L'Aquila is a wonderful city, but a rather unusual choice for an artist. Why did you move there?

My parents moved there when we were little, and we grew up there. But it was good for me. I had the time and peace to grow, to develop, to think. Even the silence helped me mature.

You've kept a strong bond with Abruzzo, also promoting solidarity initiatives after the earthquake (the single “Ninna nanna” and the event “Amiche per l'Abruzzo”, at Milan's San Siro stadium in 2009).

Yes, I've kept a strong bond with that land. Most of my friends are from Abruzzo, the ones from my teenage years, who are still there or were there.

My passion for swing was born from watching old black-and-white films. In Abruzzo, by the way, jazz is very popular: in my bands, that's all anyone ever wanted to play! And in those years, artists like Michael Bublé, Norah Jones, and Peter Cincotti were exploding: there was a real desire to return to those retro sounds. Then Peter and I ended up at Sanremo...

Going back to the music, though, I have to confess that my favorite songs of yours are the swing ones. As you said, you're a millennial - so how did this passion for such a seemingly distant, old-fashioned genre come about?

I've always loved period films, the black-and-white ones, which often had this musical backdrop that intrigued me. And you also have to factor in that jazz is huge in Abruzzo. The musicians I worked with there from my very first experiences were all jazz players: I was fronting a few local bands, and everyone always wanted to play jazz. Then I started listening to Ella Fitzgerald and all the great American singers, and my passion grew even more. After all, it was a retro sound, but one that in some ways was coming back into fashion: when I started writing, Michael Bublé was on the rise, along with Norah Jones, Peter Cincotti... In the end, it was also in swing songs that my voice found its fullest expression.

Will you go back to it?

Definitely, yes, I can't abandon swing. It's too important a part of me, and it's also fun.

You also collaborated with one of the international stars you mentioned: Peter Cincotti. How did that go?

It was a lot of fun. We were the same age, we came from two different continents but had a fairly similar outlook on music, and on a bit of everything really. I also remember lots of laughs together at Sanremo. We went into that festival with total recklessness: we were outsiders, we brought something so strange compared to the usual Sanremo fare that we couldn't help but experience it playfully. For instance, the day after the final, we went on Domenica In, and Peter, who didn't understand a word of Italian, asked me what the host was saying. I told him she was reading out the song rankings. And he said: "Wait, it was a competition?!" He hadn't understood what he'd gotten himself into... Then he asked me: "So how did we do?" "Well... thirteenth." "Out of how many?" "Fourteen." And I watched him turn pale!

Well, he didn't even know that the Sanremo rankings often have to be read backwards...

Yeah, exactly. But that was the spirit of it, completely reckless. Anyway, music can't be a competition, it can't be a sport. It's something else entirely. So Sanremo has to be taken as a game. Taste comes into it, trends, so many factors that make it hard to pin down.

You've been there twice, in 2009 among the Newcomers with "Egocentrica" and in 2013 with "La felicità", paired with Cincotti.

Yes, and then I was a guest twice, on duet nights: once with Renzo Rubino, who came third, and again with Raphael Gualazzi in 2020.

Would you like to go back to the Ariston?

Yes, definitely. Sooner or later, who knows. Sanremo remains a coveted goal, one of the most important stages for launching an album, for presenting new music. And it's also a moment when everyone comes together, almost like the World Cup or the Euros. Italy comes to a standstill for a week. Something that doesn't happen for music in any other context.

I'd like to get back into theatre after 'Jekyll e Hide' and 'Jesus Christ Superstar'. I'm working on a kind of recital with songs and stories. Film? I had a great time with Stefano Fresi on the set of 'C'è tempo', I'd gladly do it again

You've also worked in theatre, collaborating with Michele Placido, making your lead debut in the musical "Jekyll e Hyde" and playing Mary Magdalene in "Jesus Christ Superstar" alongside the legendary Ted Neeley. Is that another experience you'd like to try again?

Yes, that "Jesus Christ Superstar" at the Sistina was especially memorable, Negrita were even there! Right now I'm actually working on a project that combines music and theatre, a kind of recital, with songs and stories. I really love telling stories, which I often do in my concerts too: a sort of music-theatre that I'd like to keep pursuing.

In 2019 you even made your film debut, co-starring in Walter Veltroni's film “C'è tempo”, and also writing some of the songs for it. How did you find working on set?

Wonderful, in that case too, because I was lucky enough to work with wonderful people. Starting with Walter, who was an excellent guide for a newcomer like me, but also Stefano Fresi, who was outstanding: a formidable actor and one of the finest people I've met in this field, and then the two kids, who by now have become young adults. A really beautiful, poetic atmosphere developed, and I think it comes through in the film too. That's an experience I'd love to repeat.

My most memorable shows abroad? In New York at the Blue Note, the temple of jazz where all my idols have played. And then in Hong Kong, where I brought musicians from all over the world onto the stage: it was a little utopia.

Unlike other Italian singers who might be huge here but have never set foot outside the country, you have extensive experience abroad. You've performed in theatres all over the world, from North America to China. What do you take away from those nights?

I especially remember the night at the Blue Note in New York, one of the places I dreamed of performing because all the artists who inspired me played there. And I really believe Americans are the perfect audience: they have this incredible energy that comes across so strongly to whoever's on the other side, pushing them to go beyond their own limits. Then there's Hong Kong. I spent quite a while there, and in the days leading up to the concert I was introduced to pretty much the whole local music scene: there's a thriving live scene and it's a wonderful city. That's how I met musicians of every nationality: an incredible African singer, a wonderful Canadian singer, an Italian guy who was a tenor. I invited them all to my concert, and they all came. Then, at the end of the show, I called them all up on stage and we sang together, improvising, each with their own technique and voice. Each one in their own way. But it was probably the most beautiful moment of my artistic life, and maybe it gave me a sense of what music can be: putting your own uniqueness at the centre and then engaging in dialogue with others, respecting their differences. In short, on that stage a little utopia came to life.

You're one of those artists who actually studied. At 8 you were already studying singing, at 16 you started specialising in jazz, delving into modern vocals, jazz improvisation and African-American vocal style. Then you studied classical music at the L'Aquila conservatory. Does it bother you a bit to see that nowadays all it takes is posting a video on TikTok or YouTube to become successful?

It strikes me as strange, but more than anything I'm curious to see how far it can go. I am convinced, though, that trends pass, while the classics never die. Often what's involved isn't really music but entertainment. I think that beyond those three minutes of escapism where people passively soak up stimuli from TikTok, they eventually crave real content. When they feel the need for something, they go looking for it elsewhere. Something they might even be willing to pay a concert ticket for, or to experience not just as a single track but as an entire body of work. What bothers me, more than anything, are two things: that the media have completely surrendered to numbers…

Not us at OndaRock, though! (we laugh) By the way, do you know us?

Of course, how could I not!

Good. And what's the other thing that bothers you?

The fact that those numbers can be manipulated anyway: it's a vicious circle, and it means there isn't a wider range of cultural offerings out there. They only push that one thing, and I don't know how long before people get tired of it. Maybe things will quickly move on to another genre. But I do think that even within trends, there are things that, although not especially sophisticated, can turn out to be genuine — some of them I like too. There are plenty of talented young artists out there, even without formal training. They have strong drive and talent. What would upset me is if the ultimate motivation for these young artists became business alone — then yes, music would be degraded: it would become nothing but advertising.

There's an issue with musical education: in Italy, jazz has never been fashionable. But once you get into it, you never leave — a bit like sushi! My idols? Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Simone, Sara Vaughan, Billie Holiday, Joni Mitchell, Eva Cassidy, Melody Gardot…

But in Italy it's tougher for jazz-trained singers like you, or like Chiara Civello, to name another artist I think is excellent? Is it a problem of musical education?

Yes, there's little musical education, but also little exposure. I'm convinced that the more you hear something, the more the ear gets used to it, as shown by the fact that every country has a different kind of music that dominates. So obviously jazz gets very little exposure compared to pop, rap and trap. It's not fashionable, it never has been. But once you get into it, you never leave. And you find it harder to enjoy purely entertainment-driven music, precisely because you get used to more sophisticated structures. A bit like starting to eat sushi, really!

And yet abroad, both you and Chiara Civello have had great success…

Yes, in countries with a different kind of culture, including musical culture, that's often how it works. It's a cultural factor too.

In a sense, you're also the natural heirs of Ornella Vanoni, with whom you also sang on “Amore a prima vista”. Was that exciting?

Well, of course, she's a legend, and I'd sign up right now to reach her age with that kind of shape and that energy. She's really an example for all of us: she's almost never been mainstream, yet she's kept going against the tide, and that's exactly what gives her whole career the shine it's rightly given credit for today. So, chapeau. Starting out alongside her, the fact that she agreed to sing “Amore a prima vista” with me, for which we also won a Gold Record, gave me a huge injection of confidence. I'll always be grateful to her for that.

Is there anything you like about the new Italian scene?

I really like Levante, especially in terms of content, even though musically she's quite far from me. My favorite artist, though, is Brunori Sas: his songs are always so profound, and I love that about him. I also think it won't be long before a young artist like Serena Brancale breaks through. And among the more mainstream female singers, I always find Madame very original and consistent.

And on the international front?

I like a singer called Ashe, from California - I even went to see her live here in Milan, I love her songwriting and the way she sings. I also love Sia, Imagine Dragons... and also some kids I listen to on Instagram, French singers... They get insane numbers on Instagram with these audio clips running under images... but then I can't find them on Spotify. I haven't quite figured out how it works, but sooner or later this whole wave will find its own way of settling into place.

What about your historical points of reference?

Ella Fitzgerald, Nina Simone, Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holiday, Joni Mitchell, Eva Cassidy... As a girl I also really liked Melody Gardot.

An all-female pantheon...

Yes, whereas in Italy I tend to prefer male artists. Maybe because of a bias of mine: I've convinced myself that in Italy female singer-songwriters have to pass through the filter of five men before reaching the final result, so something written a certain way ends up going through changes, and by the time it reaches the audience it's a mix of what a woman originally wrote and what it became after being filtered through male taste. Abroad, I think there's more freedom. If I listen to an American artist, I'm 90% convinced she's expressing exactly what she really means; if it's an Italian artist, I immediately become more skeptical. But maybe I'm just biased by my own personal experience...

You should organize an Italian Lilith Fair, excluding all the men (we laugh)

Exactly. But then when you look at the sales figures... Women in Italy sell far less than men, there's a real underlying problem there. In the decision-making spaces, where it's decided what gets released or promoted, it's all men. Maybe you too mostly listen to music made by men...

Um... actually, I'm really fixated on female singer-songwriters, I'm not a good example!

Ah, good to hear! But I do tend to think that a lot of men identify more with what male artists sing, or with a certain type of woman who perhaps caters to a vision that's more congenial to them. But it's a complicated issue... Let's just say we hope Italy will make more room for women.

Oh yes, especially to you!

Thanks, I'll do my best.

I'm already working on the new album, it should come out in autumn 2023, preceded by a few singles. I won't wait another 7 years!

Upcoming projects?

I'm working on new songs, an album that won't be out before next autumn though.

Just don't make us wait another 7 years… (we laugh)

No, I promise: I won't wait 7 years! Some singles might come out even before autumn. At the same time I'm putting together that music-theatre project I mentioned earlier. Then I'll play more shows, still as part of the Petali Tour.

Do you want to say something to OndaRock's readers and staff?

Best wishes to you all, hoping the new year will be better than all the past ones. And keep up the good work!

Ride the wave of great music

Add OndaRock to your favorite sources on Google Discover. Don't miss our reviews, milestones and latest news straight in your feed.

Follow on Google