Dogbowl

Bronx native, painter, novelist and musician Stephen Tunney, aka Dogbowl, was the creator, especially in the early 1990s, of some of the most compelling pages in psychedelic pop, a genre he took to sublime heights in the masterpiece "Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain". What follows is our interview with Stephen, who did not disappoint us, proving to be incredibly talkative and full of passion for his art.

Tell me a little bit about how you got into music and what were the first albums and artists that most influenced you.
I've always loved music and the different worlds that recording artists created simply by recording songs and as far back as I could remember, I always wanted to create music too, even though as a child, I did not know how. Because I am an old guy, I remember how during the 60s, music took on such a great part of the cultural movements at the time—I always had the radio on and between the daily tragic news of the vietnam war, the presence of music added to the cultural intensity of a changing world. As a child, I remember seeing "A Hard Day’s Night" and "Help" at the local drive-in cinema with my parents and my brothers in an old chevy station wagon. What struck me then, and still does, is not just the sound of recorded music, but the spectacle of the live performance or the presence of visual-theatrical-cinematic-fashion arts when musicians presented themselves. Back then, I really loved The Monkees because they had a way of presenting music while keeping the visual representation in the world of the Marx brothers, who also used comical visualizations of music-making as important parts of their films (Harpo and the Harp, Chico and the piano, Groucho as a singer, in my opinion, The Marx Brothers were true punk rockers).
As I got older, I had trouble finding a musical instrument that I was good at — we had a good music program in my elementary school on Long Island (suburb of New York City) so first I tried to play the trumpet, and I failed. I could not comprehend reading music on sheep paper. I then tried to play the saxophone, and that was a big failure too. Funny enough, my school did not offer guitar lessons, which is what I really wanted to do. Also, my older brother was taking private guitar lessons and I thought there was already a guitarist in the family. I was becoming more and more focused on visual art anyway, and it seemed too difficult to learn to play the guitar, and I did not have the confidence to take guitar lessons—I was afraid the teacher would force me to play things I did not like. However, that changed when I was 17, punk rock exploded in 1977 and I realized all I had to know were a few basic chords. My older brother stopped playing his electric guitar so he let me use his old univox guitar that looked like a mosrite guitar, and my younger brother Chris (who later played on my records) was already a very good musician and he showed me how to play some open chords.
Before punk rock, I was obsessed with the Beatles, in particular John Lennon, but I also quite liked Elton John, Kiss, Neil Young, the Kinks, The Who, a lot of popular musicians and artists that people all over the world loved. My tastes back then were not so avante-garde...but when I discovered punk rock, I discovered that it was possible to make up melodies over simple chord progressions, and, to write songs that were offensive and funny. I became immediatly obsessed with the Sex Pistols, the Ramones, Devo, Richard Hell, Johnny Thunders and others. Around the time of my discovery of punk rock, I found out that two very good friends of mine were having similar experiences in musical discovery, my friend Mark wanted to learn how to play bass guitar and my friend Steve was already an excellent drummer so we formed a band and we called ourselves The Flys. We only had one gig—at my high school and the students on Long Island did not fully appreciate punk rock so there are a miniature riot as students threw garbage at us and we were thrown off the stage after only two songs! And yet, it was a wonderful experience!
The fate of this first band collapsed as all the members went away to college and I was attending an art school in New York City and living at home with my mom and dad and working in a department store on the weekends — with some of my co-workers at this department store, I formed a new band, which was called The Skitzocrats — these guys had differend musical tastes than me, and as I was already becoming less satisfied with the chordal limitations of punk rock, working with these guys gave me licence to expand outside the world to three open chords. That was when my brother joined the group with keyboards and clarinet. I clearly remember a moment when I realized I needed to learn bar chords — back to the Beatles again for a moment, there is a scene when they are playing “If I Fell” and George Harrison is clearly playing bar chords—I knew that I would have to learn bar chords if I were to improve my melodies in the songs I was writing—that moment watching that scene convinced me that although I would never beciome a good lead guitarist, I know I could become a decent rythem guitarist. It was around this post-punk time of musical development that I discovered Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground, which I became absolutly obsessed with, and remain obsessed with. In particular their moody and highly distorted songs like "White Light/White Heat" — they sounded so carelessly recorded, and the results were perfect. As if the idea that you could do it on your own was not only easier, but more true to your artistic vision: if you ignore technical perfection, you may achieve the perfection you desire that is manifest in your fleeting imagination.

Besides music, what has influenced your music?
Cinema, Painting and Literature. In cinema, of course I love directors like Tarkovsky, Kubrick, Fellini, Godard, Truffaut, Antonoini, Di Sica, David Lynch, Woody Allen, etc. My favorite painters tend to be from the Renissaince or pre-renissaince, with of course Hieronymus Bosch as a central influence, however these days I am more interested in some of the mysteries of renissaince painting—recently I became obsessed with some of Raphael’s achievements in color saturation. With regards to visual art, I am stuck in the past! Regarding literature, I tend to appreciate the classics like Joyce and Dostoyevsky and Cervantes.

Why did you choose the moniker Dogbowl?
Puerly by random chance. I was assigning ridicoulas names for the members of one of my early bands—one of the musicians asked me ok, what about you? What will your ridicoulas name be, and there was an actual dog bowl on the floor of the rehersal studio, so I randomly said, Dogbowl—my name will be dogbowl. For better or for worse, it stuck. People remembered that name.

Between 1986 and 1988, with King Missile, you recorded two albums ("Fluting On The Hump" and "They") that mixed, with surreal flair, indie-rock, anti-folk, psychedelia, garage-rock and so on. Why, at some point, did you leave the band?
King Missile was becoming more popular, but I was spending a lot of time in France (my late wife was french) and by staying in King Missile I would lose out on the chance to live more of my time in Europe. I was also writing a lot. By concentrating on a solo career, I could both persue my life in France with my french wife, but I was afraid that by staying in King Missile I would have to sacrifice that. Anyway, all the guitar parts on those records are very easy, and I figured they would find a replacement right away, which they did in that Dave Rick came on as the new guitarist and they went on to achieve a lot more fame! Luckily, I remained friends with them, and through the years I returned to King Missile for occassional concerts. John Hall and I have recently reassembled the original members of king missile, and we played in New York in September so hopefully we will have more chances to play again.


King Missile (Dog Fly Religion)

Supported by Kramer, in 1989 you recorded "Tit! (An Opera)". What do you remember about that experience and that record?
"Tit! (An Opera)" came out of some solo demos that I had been making with a casette 4-track at the time. Kramer asked me if I wanted to make a solo record, so I gave him a copy of my demos and he really liked them. It was also a chance for me to work with some of the friends I had been playing with on and off, like the cello player Charles Curtis, and Lee Ming Tah who played lap steel, and Chris my brother and his clarinet. We recorded it in much the same way as a home demo, except Kramer had some great microphones and Kramer played on the record too as well as recording it. Funny enough, the title was added long after the record was finished—there was no “opera” intended, we just thought it sounded funny to add that on!

Then, it was the turn of "Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain." Why did you specifically choose that title?
I always liked instances of greek mythology getting inserted into popular culture, and I have always liked the character of the cyclops, as a kind of clumsy and terrifying character. I have always been a big fan of both Jules Verne’s Nautilus and The Beatles Yellow Submarine and I like the idea of a similar “theme” for a record like that. Also, its fun to give a record a long and absurd title.

"Cyclops..." is a true masterpiece of kaleidoscopic psychedelic pop. Would you like to tell us how the idea for this record came about? What had changed in the meantime from "Tit! (An Opera)," besides some of the musicians in your band?
I assembled a group of musicians to support “Tit” and then we started working on new songs. I knew my second record had to have a grand, almost mythological scope to it, and I think the songs in the order they are convey that idea. We got Race Age, a wonderful drummer - "Tit! (An Opera)" had no drums! Some drum machine, but no drums - and Lee Ming Tah moved from lap steel guitar to bass. By moving to real drums, the sound is substantionally expanded. I knew it had to be colorful and with the collaboration of my brother Chris and Michael Schumacher on guitar I was confident these sonic viewpoints would either mesh well together, or, collide. I like the idea that the listener might believe they are watching a film while this album plays. It remains my favorite of all my albums.

Where did you guys record "Cyclops..." and how long did the recordings last?
I think it took us about a month. Noise New York, which was Kramers recording studio in manhattan before he moved his operation to New Jersey

Do you remember any special anecdotes related to the recordings of "Cyclops"?
I was very pleased with how “South American Eye” came out. We had a lot of fun making it. No drama. We had already rehersed all those songs so we could have played it live. I remember while recording “South American Eye” Kramer told me I should sing it as if I were a crooner, like Rudy Valee—which I did the best I could!


“Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain” lineup
How was "Cyclops..." received by the public and critics? Do you remember any particular reviews?
I dont think it sold very well—but the people who bought it loved it! So many people tell me it was their favorite of all my records. It was my late wife’s favorite record of mine! I remember the british press like NME and Melody Maker wrote about highly favorably on several occasions! So the press liked it. And Piero Scaruffi too! I re-read what he wrote about me and my music and I am humbled and honored at his analysis!! I read some of his things before, he always writes great stuff!

What artists and/or albums inspired you while you were writing "Cyclops..."?
I have trouble remembering what inspired me while making this record, except the animation of Ray Harryhausen! I remember I kept thinking of Ray Harryhausen while making this record!

Tell me more...
As a child, I always had a fascination for the hyper realistic results of stop-motion animation, in particular the Cyclops characters in the film "7th Voyage of Sinbad". These particular cyclops figures seemed to me to be the ultimate representation of the Freudian ID, that is they acted completely without considerations of society or human interaction. They were ferociously single-minded as they had a single eye and they were wild creatures and yet they knew enough how to pick up a person and stick them into a cage and then cook them whenever they wanted to. They were terribly frightening and at the same time highly intriguing. I think it was also the herky-jerky movements of the stop action animation which lent a hyper-realistic quality to these scenes of these beasts with one eye and I think this was an appealing quality to all of Ray Harryhausen’s work in that the animations themselves were not perfect and yet they were incredibly interesting to watch, it's as if, through the imperfect movement of stop-motion animation, they created a visual alternate reality which is something I was very interested in. I think it was a huge reason I called the record "Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain" because the nautical nature of a submarine juxtapositioned with the steampunk qualities of a mad cyclops created a very nice combination

The dominant theme of "Cyclops..." is basically love. However, is it possible to identify a leading narrative thread in the album?
I like the idea that the record “suggests” a story as opposed to “telling” a story. And I think a group of songs that have a surrealistic bent to them with a common theme throughout creates a dream-time sense of movement. Many of the songs suggest flight ("South American Eye", "Float") or sea travel (the title track, "Swan", "Beautiful Trailer Park") or the internal movement of sadness ("Shopping Mall", "So Painful") or the movement associated with love and associations with dreamlike environments ("Flower Garden Bed", "Hit Me Over My Head","Ferris Wheel") and I was hoping the listener would fill in the blank spaces with their own stories, that way the listener feels they are involved with the production of the record.

After "Cyclops," you released "Flan," which closes your psychedelic trilogy. How do you remember that period?
I am very fond of all three of those records and I think they seem to be linked in some way. Many of same musicians appear on those three records and that lends a general “trilogy” feel to it. I think of "Tit! (An Opera)" as more of a series of sketches that were then painted upon to achieve a coherence to songs that normally don't really fit together. Funny enough, "Tit! (An Opera)" is actually more like two records. The LP version does not have as many songs as the CD version and the CD version contains songs that I recorded at Noise New York after the completion of the Vinyl LP. These additional songs are very sparse but I think they added a lot to the overall sound of the record. The “Opera” part of the title was added on after the record was finished because we thought it was funny and it seemed to work because when the songs are all together, I got the impression that a vague story is suggested. "Cyclops..." was more in the direct application of the suggested storyline simply by dropping a few hints about sea travel, cyclops and flying, I think the listener is able to construct their own surreal world by these clues that appear in the record. "Flan" was a direct story it was a retelling of the novel "Flan" that I published in 1992 so that was very direct and deliberate in its narrative structure

Would you like to tell us, in this regard, about your experience as a novelist as well? What themes interest you most and which novelists have inspired you the most?
Because I like to work in three mediums I often like to think of these three mediums as a different sort of three primary colors, as if painting is one primary color, writing is another primary color, and music is a third primary color. I am happiest when I get to combine and somehow make bridges between these different modes of expression. "Flan" exists because I had already written the novel "Flan" and it was accepted for publication before I made the record, so I thought it was an ideal opportunity to really explore and even breach the barriers between writing and music production, and considering the album artwork, visual representation as well as zones between expression. As far as the theme of Flan, it was indeed a post-apocalyptic novel and a post-apocalyptic record.
As a child I was always very interested in the concept of post-apocalypse because I grew up under the paranoid worldview of the Cold War. We were constantly having nuclear bomb drills in my elementary school and that affected me deeply as a child, as a young person I came to believe that no future existed because the future was going to be blown up before I reached adult age and I had many nightmares about this, and indeed these fears of a destroyed world that I experienced as a child developed into many of the tools I use when I make art. Thankfully there was never a nuclear war. Because Flan has a lot of surreal elements and psychedelic elements, it's more than just a simple post-apocalyptic story — it's more about the nightmares that are induced by post-apocalyptic fear, so I suppose I was very afraid of post-apocalypse and at the same time intrigued by it. The concept of post-apocalypse can take many forms. It does not have to be the destruction of the world, it could be the destruction of your own world. For example I'm a widower, I was with my French wife for 30 years — quite honestly she was my main inspiration for many many of the artistic things I did. She died of brain cancer in 2017 and since then my life has had a certain post-apocalyptic feel to it. Even when my wife was extremely ill I had trouble imagining what life would be like if she were to die. When she ultimately died, it was as if my entire world had collapsed and even though my life situation is better now than those first dark days as a widower, even now, life has a certain feel of post-apocalypse to it because my wife no longer exists and it is a situation that continues to trouble me. However the advantage one has when writing a novel is that you can go very deep into a subject that you cannot go as deeply in with visual art or music. I think when writing a novel one has a similar experience to lucid dreaming as if you are dreaming and creating an entire world on your own and you can because it is simply used with words and the descriptive power of words can create a visual feeling in the reader that cannot be achieved with paint or music so when I write a novel I think of it as a form of lucid dreaming, as if I am in a dream state and I am in complete control of myself within that world represented by the dream I am experiencing, all while being aware it is a dream. Novel writing allows for this especially if one stops paying attention to rules of how novels should be constructed. All artists, be they visual artists, music composers, or text writers should invent their own rules when creating. As far as my favorite novels are concerned I tend to prefer Classics such as "Moby Dick" by Melville or "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoevsky or "Don Quixote" by Cervantes. I also like the work of Charles Bukowski, Celine, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Amos Tutola, and of course Edgar Allen Poe.

Since you are a well-rounded artist, tell us something about your painting. I know that you graduated from Parsons School of Design with a BFA in 1982.
Yes, I graduated from Parsons in 1982 and I also went on to get a Masters Degree in painting from the City College of New York in 1991. At Parsons I studied illustration and at city college I studied painting where I was drawn to the classic painters of the Italian Renaissance as well as the Dutch Renaissance, in particular I became obsessed with many of the techniques of Renaissance painters or their use of line or their use of layering glazes of paint. For example I think my favorite part of Botticelli is his use of line, the almost cartoon character application of line when he makes his figurations and facial features. I have also obsessively studied the color layering applications of Rafael because Raphael is my favorite colorist of all time. I'm highly inspired by the portraits of Hans Memling or the almost photorealistic results of Hans Holbein's portraits — funny enough I say “photorealistic” but I think “hyper-realistic” is more apt of a description and that brings me back to why I was drawn to the hyper-realistic results of Ray Harryhausen’s stop action animation — I like things that are realistic and yet a bit off, a bit unrealistic so the eye is constantly trying to figure out if something is real or not. It’s a zone I'm very comfortable in, and intrigued by.

After "Project Success" (1993), you collaborated with "Kramer" on a couple of albums, "Hot Day In Waco" and "Gunsmoke." What kind of guy is Kramer? What is it like working with him?
What was excellent about Kramer is that he got things done. He has a very good set of ears and he hears a lot of things that a lot of artists don't necessarily hear immediately which is what makes him such a good producer. What was also impressive is that he would be already thinking about the next record before you're finished making the current one. I would be working on a record with him in the studio and then he would turn to me and say “so I hope you've written songs for the next one” In this regard he was fun to work with and he was fun to tour with — I did a lot of touring with him back in the 90s and I also played rhythm guitar with Bongwater for their first European tour back in I think 1991. I think his production of "Cyclops..." is wonderful.

Your last three albums, "Fantastic Carburetor Man" (2001), "Songs For Narcisse" (2005) and "Zone Of Blue" (2015), were released on your own label, Eyeball Planet. What happened: was there no longer interest in your music, or did you freely choose to work independently?
After the duo two records I made with Kramer ("Hot Day In Waco" and "Gunsmoke") I recorded two albums with the French record label Lithium Records in Paris so for a period of time I was working and touring in France a lot. I got connected with Lithium Records through my friendship with Michel Cloup of Diabologum and Peter Parker Experience — and in fact, before I made any full length albums records with Lithium, Michel Cloup and I released a double-45 single on Lithium callee “Nuage Nuage” under the name Dogbowl and Peter Parker. The albums I then made in France for the Lithium label were called “Cigars, Guitars and Topless Bars: Dogbowl Live on WFMU," which was a recording of a live concert on the radio station WFMU in New Jersey and it was just a trio featuring myself on guitar, Lee Ming Tah on bass and Race Age on drums. I always loved working with a trio of guitar bass and drum, and I’m glad “Live on WFMU” documents that sound. Afterwards, I recorded a studio album for Lithium Records called “The Zeppelin Record”. I worked with some excellent French musicians at the Studio de la Seine in Paris for the recording of that project. It is after "The Zeppelin Record" that I made two records for my small self-release label Eyeball Planet: “Fantastic Carburetor Man” and “Songs For Narcisse”. "Songs For Narcisse" came out of a theatrical production of Jean Jacques Rousseau's play “Narcisse” which my wife Anne Deneys-Tunney directed. It was performed at The Theater For The New City in 2006. I composed and recorded the music for the performances, and I put together the set design. Regarding these two releases, I'm not sure what kind of record label I could have gotten if I had shopped these recordings around but at that point I did not have an actual record label and I wanted to see what would happen if I released these records on my own. That was more difficult when it came to the question of production of the CDs so I used to just burn my own CDs and package them myself. It was fun but I think it is better to have the support of a label. Subsequently, “Zone Of Blue” was put out by the Belgian record label 62 TV. They had already put out the "Best of Dogbowl" in the year 2000 so I was familiar with them and I was friends with all the musicians and I recorded my parts in New York and sent the files to Belgium where the Belgian musicians who play on that record contributed their tracks, recorded at the excellent Swimming House Studio in Bruxelles.

What are the ten most important albums in your life and why?
Nearly impossible to answer because I will think of more records later, but here it goes, off the top of my head…

1. Sex Pistols - Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols (1977), because this record made me feel I could do my own music and because punk rock really spoke to me back then
2. Ramones - Rocket To Russia (1977), because I learned the beauty of just using three chords when writing songs
3. Beatles – White Album (1968), because it has the song Julia and Julia is my favorite song of all time
4. Velvet Underground - White Light / White Heat (1968), because of how free the production sounds and how it is so gloriously messy
5. Velvet Underground - 1969 Velvet Underground Live With Lou Reed (1974), because it has the most wonderful version of sweet Jane ever recorded I believe they actually wrote it that afternoon that the recording was performed on
6. Buzzcocks - Singles Going Steady (1979), because it proves that punk rock can produce great, great, great pop songs
7. Kiss - Alive! (1975), because I still like to play air guitar when I am alone at home and Rock and Roll all night it the ultimate air guitar song for me
8. Rolling Stones - Some Girls (1978), because when I listen to this record, it is 1978 once more and I am 18 years old again
9. Public Image Ltd - Metal Box (1979): simply one of the most fantastic things ever — "Albatross", "Poptones" and "No Birds" among my favorites
10. Devo - Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! (1978): this record is an absolute masterpiece—in many ways, the true American answer to the Sex Pistols.
11. All the recordings of the great Robert Johnson. The true inventor of Rock and Roll.

What are you doing in this period? Do you still have musical projects in your head, or do you just think about other things?
I actually have a lot on my plate these days! I just had an exhibition of paintings in New York City, and I have a project of 12 (or as many as 20) new oil-painted electric guitars I wish to accomplish this year (or 2025 if I procrastinate!) I also wish to accomplish more portraits and jump start my career as a portrait painter which I neglected! I am busy working on the two sequels of my last novel "One Hundred Percent Lunar Boy" — there were setbacks due to some contract difficulties, but I am still forging ahead hoping these contract problems can be resolved. Musically, I am currently working on two albums that I am recording at home. The first album is to be called “Muse" and it is a collection of songs about the death of my french wife Anne (she sings a song on "The Zeppelin Record". The song is called "Peggietta") The other record is called “Exile On Planet Brooklyn” and it contains a lot of songs about isolation and sadness, and… of course love because even widowers can fall in love again, and this new album has songs about that too. I am not sure if there is a label that will want to do this type of double release, but if not, I will release them myself. I should note that there is an American label in Nashville that is reissuing not only my early psychedelic albums, but the first two King Missile albums I played on. They are called Needeljuice Records. They are going to reissue "Cyclops Nuclear Submarine Captain" as well as "Tit! (An Opera)" and "Flan" and the King Missile records! Needlejuice Records made my earlier out of release albums available again as digital downloads or streaming.